Now here lies the conundrum. A mighty being, that created man in his own image. Presumable meaning he has thoughts, feelings, opinions etc. Just like man does (like the Holy Book says he does). He must reside somewhere. He must interact with the world somehow. He must be perceivable to all and impartial. After-all, he's the guy in charge isn't he?
Now, 1000 years ago people KNEW god made it rain for crops to grow. There was no question about that. It looked obvious to them. When there was drought it was a punishment from him. How could it not be otherwise?
Well, thanks to science this superstition has been discredited in most parts of the world. We now know what makes it rain. Religious people have made a remarkable goal-post movement and incorporated some of the scientific knowledge that is irrefutable (as long as they can still claim god's in charge). Now since evolution and the big bang theory have the ability to reduce religious dogma to the superstitious rubbish that they are, religious folks argue furiously about the evidence apparent in them - why shouldn't they? If they didn't the whole house of cards would collapse.
Now I'm not the one to rubbish some bronze-age collection of Jewish myths and fables, I don't really need to since I know from itself that it is all tall tales and dogma aimed at people who "need" something other than themselves to take credit for happenstance. Funny how people all other the world have gods that are in perfect alignment with their own desires. If you have an enemy god said it is okay to kill him. God has always been the convenient excuse for everything, including virtue I might add.
Humans need coherence. They need structure and closure to apply to everything, including existence. Look at the bible itself. It contains a somewhat narrative of the apparent beginning and end of the world. Religious people have made that mistake of substituting myth for actual occurrence. From Moses to Jesus there is little to zero archaeological evidence (except in the bible itself of course) that they actually existed as "real" historical characters. But that doesn't stop the billions of people who actually believe it.
Unfortunately the "gaps" in scientific knowledge. And yes there are gaps and would always be as science cannot - by its very nature - solve a problem without opening up another one. Gaps that would always be filled by religious falsehoods bent on keeping the illusion alive either for "business" reasons or community coherence. Such is the world we live in.
Now this is a load of bollocks coming from you mate,why do you have to stretch ignorance to such limits?and you claim to have ever been in a classroom,am beginning to doubt,this article here shows a weak mind at work,read more dude,maybe you will cure that chronic illness you have,dellusions of grandeur,you read two law books and you think you are a lawyer,how contradictory can one be in this article,the fact that you cant even construct a meaningful sequence of events in a scientific context displays your inability and confines you to the moronic bench of scientific indoctrination,and tell that leutenant of yours to stop embarrassing you lot,he cant understand the theory of evolution himself yet he thinks in his weak mind that he can criticise someone doing a four year curicullum in the field.
i have lectured you lot alot on this subject its beginning to bore me,its sad how one can spend crap load of time reading scientific books without an open and unbiased mind,look what its made you to be,a man engulfed in negative knowledge,so blindfolded cant even see where he is going,if God could create the world,making it without form or void,or in other words making it into one big cloud of gas which later solidifies as scientists proved it right and alot of biblical scholars agree.go and look up Ferrar Fenton.more details on that,scientists also agree that during the solidification process,the atmosphere became so dense that light could not pernetrate the earth,thats why there is the explanation which was later stolen by scientists,the speed of light,its in the bible that light came on earth before the sun and moon or stars appeared.biblical explanations cannot be the same as scientific,you dont need a lab or experiments to prove anything,thats why its so distorted and dissected by interpreters,but any explanation is not far from the truth,the documentation of biblical texts have been artered,some even burned thats why science can claim anything,calling it myths and fables.but if you study hard like game does you will know,dont just read these books,study them,note that study and reading just to argue with people on cyber forums is crap knowledge.
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all i have is my word,and i dont break it for nobody.
All my years of study. Of reading Gould, Darwin, Dawkins, Hawkins, Paine, Armstrong (Karen), Marx and erm, Woody Allen all gone to waste. I have been wasting all my years, all that time and money I spent on education. All the sleepless nights typing assignments and straining myself in the library. Wow. If only I had read Farrar Fenton!
What a load of rubbish!
You don't have a clue of the history of science. You've never read any of the above world renown scientists and what they have to say about anything. You have the guts to bring up Farrar Fenton? I underestimated your ignorance. For one, he's not even a known scientist so no one in the scientific community would pay him any mind. Only ignorant folks like yourself who are desperately looking to reconcile your beliefs with science (hence the cognitive dissonance I mentioned earlier).
The main thing is that you're wrong. Scientists, At least the present day ones, operate completely independent of biblical stuff. Did they "steal" it from the bible? Well, maybe in your mind and in the mind of your church people.
Do yourself a favour and quit while you still can. You might think you're being smart by arguing "argumentum ad ignorantiam" but you sound like a cheap rabble rouser and it only betrays your total ignorance of science. You really should be ashamed. I'm choking on my coffee laughing.
When I showed some of my work colleagues - none of who are even scientists, they said either you were trolling the forum or you were reading a lot of odd literature. They couldn't believe anyone educated can actually believe this stuff.
I hope I encourage you to read more just to bring your arguments here. Probably one day you'll get to go to the museum or the library. And all this stuff would have some clarity to you.
abre,first and foremost tell your colleagues at work screw their ignorance,and as for you,am sorry to say this but you are one of the few individuals in my circle to stand so shamelessly defending their ignorance.it breaks my heart because i thought you was some genius.
let me say i do not belong to any denomination or cult and never have.nor do i proselytise for this path or that particular path.my way has always been to remain free to explore everything this mysterious universe has to offer us.therefore i have sought to assist others to open up to whatever means be it scientific or religious practices most suited to their nature.
i tend to see things from all sides and to attempt a global understanding of science and religion,how can i know stuff about science if i only view existence in a narrow slit of single tradition?if one can strongly be attached to any one philosophy or religion,especially to the extent of fighting for it either physically or verbally then one has to know without doubt that he is in bondage of illussion, religious belief born of social conditioning is not a sound basis for spiritual growth,and so is people like you chained hand and foot to scientific concepts can make but little progress on your path.
i have spent all my years and days of my life understanding christian and scientific doctrines,jewish rabbis,sufi dervishes,sikh saints,hindu gurus,zen masters,chinese contemplatives,these people i have assorciated myself with and count them among my friends,including biology lectures whose scientific beliefs go further than that of you abre,i embrace the essential aspects of all traditions and also the non-traditional without being attached to any of them.its called searching for knowledge.whatever gives me light i carry with me while it serves me well.in this case i have to admit your chosen path abre,doesnt discriminate the awareness which prevents one from being delludedly taken in by scientific brainwash.
am moved by christ,but am not taken in by the churchianity.i follow the noble precepts of the buddha but am not a buddhist.science dont give you a strictly accurate picture on how the world came into being.you have to be neurotic to some degree not to understand this.and if you think am going to quit just because you think am a thorn in your path then you are wrong about game.i fight to the end,
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all i have is my word,and i dont break it for nobody.
As open-minded as one can be one must realise that some things are plain wrong. Religion believed that it was right. It felt right. It was the only way to understand the world available to the folks that invented it. Who can blame them. To them the earth was the centre of the universe - it certainly looked that way. The earth looked flat and the sky looked so vast that God had to reside there.
Well, we've come so far now. Of course religion was the first method at our disposal to understand the world. It surely got some things right but since it was based on "wishful thinking" as opposed to observation and experimentation as science is, it is unreliable and inconsequential. For example, folks always thought they could cure diseases by praying for the patient and if the said person got better they thought that the prayer was responsible. What a revelation to know that it is caused by microbes?
The religious establishment has always seen science as a threat to its monopoly on "truth". But faith based reality cannot compete with hard fact. The stories of Buddha and Jesus might sound beautiful and inspirational but they are meant to be. To make us feel good and inspired with hope in this vast unrelenting world. Look at the amazing works of art and architecture that have been made by religious inspiration. No silly atheist are going to come and spoil all of this with their cold reason and evidence any cynicism.
Sometimes I wonder if there would be a lasting solution to our deferring views,we should also not forget that someones meat is ones poison.We have mastered in different proffessions and concertrating on ones study subject is crippling the whole debate.
Am not trying to throw my towel on my xtian beliefs,but I feel I need to retire from arguing about the xistence of God with pipo who I know they are satanic, hiding under a scientific bed.
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If Iam not for myself,who will be for me?And if Iam only for myself,what am I?
Abre and Game, You have started again. Can you stop it Guys. You are now behaving like Hizbolla and Israel. Why cant you recognise one anothers' interests other wise this will not stop until................................................
Sometimes I wonder if there would be a lasting solution to our deferring views,we should also not forget that someones meat is ones poison.We have mastered in different proffessions and concertrating on ones study subject is crippling the whole debate.
Am not trying to throw my towel on my xtian beliefs,but I feel I need to retire from arguing about the xistence of God with pipo who I know they are satanic, hiding under a scientific bed.
abre les ojos wrote: Maybe I need to change my avatar. By the way Ngwazi, we haven't forgotten about that speed camera issue!!!!
that was done and dusted,atleast now Ngwazi knows how flawed that decison was.what we have to think of is how many flawed decisions does the malawi government engange in?right now there is no traffic policemen manning our roads,because the government wants a review on some charges these people made.everything stems down to corruption.
and by the way who suggested we put speedo cams on the M1?Ngwazi i remember you mentioning something like that was it you?
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all i have is my word,and i dont break it for nobody.
abre les ojos wrote: By the way Ngwazi, we haven't forgotten about that speed camera issue!!!!
Hezbollah(or should we still call you Abre?),
I am sure you cant and wont forget the speed camera issue,how can you when you suggested that we should have speedbumps on the M1 instead of these mobile speedtraps?
Unforgettable indeed!!!
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For have I now become your enemy for telling you the truth?-Galatians 4 v16.
Carefully trying to divert the topic from the FACT that the speed camera business in Malawi turned out exactly like we said it would. IT DIDN'T WORK!!! It's irrelevant whether (and I don't recall I did) I said they should be speed bumps on the M1 (wherever that is).
After arguing with passion it seems that you were wrong about it. Now I'm not expecting you to admit it. I know you better than that. At least acknowledge that Malawi was not ready for such a thing.
Come to think of it, maybe those speed bumps were not such a bad idea after all. Least they don't steal money from motorists...
abre les ojos wrote: Carefully trying to divert the topic from the FACT that the speed camera business in Malawi turned out exactly like we said it would. IT DIDN'T WORK!!! It's irrelevant whether (and I don't recall I did) I said they should be speed bumps on the M1 (wherever that is).
Hez,
I will not give you an escape route as you seem to be the one diverting from the topic at hand.In case you have forgotten,the title of the thread started by game is DOGMA and has nothing to do with speedtraps.So if you want to run away from game and his salvo of points then say it and just call it quits whilst you can and go to the HotTopics section of this discussion forum where the speedtrap issue is and then probably I will give you the joy of responding,koma osathawa nkhani ili apayi by diverting it to speedtraps,this is between you and game,others like Awmygawd even wondered as to how issue ya ma speedtrap is coming in here,now I know ukumuthawa game by trying to bring a different issue to one being discussed and diverting his attention,no I wont give you that joy,I wont give you that escape route!!
By the way you said it was an "insult to your intelligence" whenever I reminded you about your own suggestions,if you wont find it that way this time then that will be better,be my guest!!!
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For have I now become your enemy for telling you the truth?-Galatians 4 v16.