This is for Abre

chichi · Senior Member

This is for Abre

game · Guru

chichi

am not abre but as much as i know the bloke he will go round in circles without any constructive criticism and without any convicing facts because the exisistency of God to scientists is PARANORMAL thats why they make experiments and live on assumptions.if they doubt the existency of God why do they have sex with women why cant they just remain celibate and wait for their turn to evolve.they know its not possible thats why they still procreate in the same manner God presented to Adam and eve.

what they forget is that the bible was written by man and being human we all are entitled to criticism of any type thats the mystery of the mighty its something that cant be easily incorporated,he made it a mystery so was his origin he knew that at one point in time man will start asking questions,thats exactly what abre is doing.and thats why scholars rationalised christanity as a political unit reflecting a divine mandate just to make it simple.

abre les ojos · Guru

LET US FOR ONE THING. TAKE CHRISTIANITY AWAY FROM GOD. I SAY THAT SINCE IT ISN'T JUST CHRISTIANS THAT BELIEVE IN GOD BUT ALL OTHER RELIGIONS. AND SAYING THAT ONLY CHRISTIANS GET IT RIGHT IS WRONG. CLAIMING THAT THEY ARE RIGHT AND EVERY OTHER 5 BILLION PEOPLE ON EARTH ARE WRONG (CONSIDERING THAT CHRISTIANS DON'T EVEN AGREE ON HOW TO GO ABOUT IT THEMSELVES) IS ABSURD.

OK. AND PLEASE STOP QUOTING THE BIBLE VERSES IN YOUR DEBATES. OF COURSE IT WOULD SAY THINGS TO BACK UP ITS CLAIMS. ITS NOT EXACTLY GOING TO SAY "HEI BY THE WAY, THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT" WILL IT?

CHRISTIANS (OF THE FUNDAMENTAL SORT) I.E. CHICHI, FAIL TO SEE THE HISTORICAL ANGLE OF THIER RELIGION. THE SOCIAL/POLITICAL FACTORS THAT CONTRIBUTED TO BRINGING OUT AND COLLECTING THE BOOKS UP TO MAKE THE BIBLE.

TAKE THE STORY OF JESUS FOR INSTANCE. THE ONLY RECORDS OF HIM ARE THE ONES BY BIBLICAL SCHOLARS. NO ONE WHO WROTE THE NEW TESTAMENT BOOKS ACTUALLY MET JESUS. AND WHAT'S FUNNY OTHER JEWISH HISTORIANS OF THAT PERIOD NEVER MENTIONED HIM. IF HE WAS SO PROMIANT, THEY COULDN'T HAVE MISSED HIM.

TRUTH IS SO MANY JEWISH MEN WERE CRUCIFIED BY THE ROMANS AT THAT TIME. CRUCIFIXION WAS THE STANDARD DEATH SENTENCE FOR REBELION EGAINST ROMAN OCCUPATION AND JEWS WERE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO LEAD AN ARMY OF REBELLION TO DRIVE OUT THE ROMANS FROM THEIR "GOD GIVEN LAND" (A BIT LIKE IT IS TODAY)

STEP IN THE MYTH OF JESUS - ALL POWERFUL SON OF GOD. IT CATCHES ON. THE ORIGINAL STORY HAD JESUS AS A WARRIOR A CHE GUEVERA SORT OF REBEL.

WELL TO CUT THE STORY SHORT. WHEN THE ROMANS GOT WIND OF THE MYTH AND CHRISTIANITY GOT HOLD OF ROME (HIGHLY IRONIC ISN'T IT) THE STORY WAS MADE TO MAKE THE ROMANS LOOK GOOD, MAKE JESUS A BENIGN PEACEFUL GUY, AND PUT THE BLAME SQUARELY ON THE JEWS FOR KILLING HIM. WHETHER HE ACTUALLY EXISTED OR WAS A CULMINATION OF A NUMBER OF TALES AND MYTHS IS DEBATABLE.

NOW THAT IS HISTORICAL, AWAY FROM "FAITH"

ABOUT GOD, I'VE MADE MY CASE A LONG TIME AGO...

chichi · Senior Member

Abre ur always dancing around a topic when u dont even know what ur talking about. The book of matthew, he was the one who wrote the book and he met Jesus. He was a tax collector when Jesus called him. He was with him live and what he wrote were not tales. John who wrote the book of John was also with Jesus. So to comment on the fact that none of the New testiment writers wasnt with Jesus is wrong. Go read some more of ur books. The question that i asked u didnt even answer go back to my post and reread what i wrote. It seems like everything just flies over ur head and u come up with your own answers. I did not claim that christians are the right pple and they will enter the kingdom of heaven u got it all wrong. I mentioned where christian word was first mentioned in the bible. I was trying to prove to u that christianity was not brought by the westerners as u call them. The white pple did not bring christianity to Africa. It was already there. U see how u dont even get what am saying. Game was right that u will just be going around in circles without any constructive criticism.

abre les ojos · Guru

Now your ignorance of the bible is evident. The Mathew and John who wrote the gospels are not the same as the characters that met Jesus. Ask any Jewish scholar and they'll tell you that. Maybe you should do your research before you argue with me. Those books were written at least a hundred years after the events. Compiled from oral traditions etc.

Christianity was in Africa before the white man brought it there? Not in sub-saharan Africa it wasn't. That is the Africa I talk about, since it is the Africa that concerns you and me.

Missionaries brought it to Africa. Go back to primary school if you didn't know that. Let us not forget that for it to catch on there was a systematic destruction of OUR heritage taking place. After they killed our fore-fathers, robbed us of our identity, sold us as slaves, they gave us the bible to pacify us from rebellion by teaching us that rubbish of "Jesus is love" - same time killing our children.

Your so-called faith has kept to short-sighted to irregularities and blatant racism/bigotry evident in your religion - the fact that you worship a white-man's God and neglect your own Africa deities and ancestoral heritage.

Boy, I feel sorry for you. Look at yourself. All your self-righteous, over-zealousness. What does it amount to huh? Ever asked yourself that question. Why you spend your time and mind praying to "Jesus" to "save" you. Save you from what? I wonder!

You need to break free from this curse of religious blindness. Know YOUR history. YOUR African history. Not Jewish history and myth....

WAKE UP!

Black Panther · Senior Member

To author of post - Thank You . I had this same discussion with the member formerlly known as Kesso a long time ago where I told him that Christianity started in Africa . WE dont need any quotes from the Bible to prove this but quotes from History. I have taken two classes on Religions and have read books indepedantly about religions when , like Abre I set out to find the true African religions and to learn about MY past. From a historical point of view, all routes point to Africa for the origins of Christianity. Please google the Coptic Church - if u goole christianity and africa all stories will tell u of when Chrsitianity came to Africa much later - In fact this was Christianity COMING BACK to Africa in its transformed Euro way. When You google the Coptic Church - They tell you how it reallly started - THERE IS ALOT OF MSEDUCATION OUT THERE. WE NEED TO OWN AND TAKE BACK ALL OUR RELIGIONS - LET PEOPLE KNOW -IT WAS OURS in the FIRST PLACE - OURS meaning AFRICAN.

Look how closely the ancient Egyption cross - this unk, resembles the Christian cross. the names correspond etc... this is not a Myth either ... anyway Christianity was taken from Africa - and then brought back a trnasformed religion b/c after all all religions serve to suite the needs of its followers... in our case though when christianity came back to us what did it really serve, it taught us to be docile and accept oppression, it stopped serving us during colonialism, but now with separtist churches and reverands like Chilembwe , they sought to mkae a Chritianity that made sense to Malawians . So be it. And all cultures evolve and change it is normal and natural.

TO ABRE Christians are not the only ones that believe in GOD (Christian God).

FACT: Judaism, Christianity and Islam ALL Are the same religion and started the Same. It is in the "New Testament " where they differ - but the Old one is all exactly the same, only names have been changed depengin on the region. The Jews belives in Jesus and God but dont believe Jesus was the "son" of God/Allah/Jehova (Same thing) - The Muslims say Mohammod is there main prophet but do not believe Jesus was the son of God (some do, but they still prncipally follow Mohammod). The Christians, belive in Chrit. To say that Christians ae th only ones that believe in the Christian God is false b/c the Christain God, is the Muslim God , is the Jewish God, and also the Bahais believe in the same God - they broke away from the Muslims....but follow Bahai 'ullah (forgive the spelling)... Please do not argue this point - read up on the origins /relationships of the religions.

ABRE please KNOW YOUR HISTORY - go beyond what you have been traditionally taught abuot Christianity being a white mans religion - if anything its african, then middle eastern (african) - its just been twerked to suit the west way back. The Coptic Church is AS AFRICAN. AS IS THE TRADITIONAL AFRICAN RELIGIONS_ WE SHOULD LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE WE ARE FREE TO KNOW ALL OF OUR AFRICAN RELIGIONS.

WE Should redefine Christianity and bring it back - not cast it off..

-- Edited by Black Panther at 16:23, 2005-08-16

game · Guru

abre

you are so wrong,it only shows how dependant on history your knowledge of the bible is.go to the acts of apostles and to the book of revelation you will see that john the apostle was the one giving testament to the kingdome of God.mathew the tax collector was if not the 5th disciple to be called by jesus and he was the most educated of them all thats why he documented every detail of his life with jesus christ.go and learn about the pharisees and the scribes you will get the answer to who authored the book of mathew.

you know the problem with you,you learn alot of history but you dont know the authors,that ignites a conflict of illusions and it definately makes you look deluded and indecisive because you dont have facts and yet you want to argue.

abre les ojos · Guru

You so totally miss my point...

How did Christianity get to Sub-saharan Africa? Hmmm? Who brought the bible? Taught us to read it and translated it for our consumption?

If you've answered that question let's move on.

You say it was twerked to suit the west way back, of course it was and that is the version we have of it today. When King James set about translating it it was an outrage. Unless you didn't know that...

Your intellectual version of God is not taught in church, it can't be. Since the church is a monopoly of faith.

Christianity IS the problem not the solution to breaking the cycle of colonialism. It is the very backbone of inferiority complex. Now you say we should redefine it. How do you suggest we do that? Any redefinition of the bible would be revisionism.

For one Jesus wasn't black. Whatever rubbish you want to believe. He was a Jew and Jews are.....

For someone with so much knowledge of archealogy and history you have little knowledge of the psychological effects of religion and propaganda. Maybe you ought to look at that angle.

And as for Game. Of course my knowledge of the bible is based on history. Unless of course biblical history happened in some parallel universe. If it can't stand up to historical scrutiny then it is useless. What is the point of your religion if it has no relation to relality or history. Then that means you just don't WANT to know the truth.

-- Edited by abre les ojos at 16:30, 2005-08-16

Black Panther · Senior Member

Game- I think that part of Abres point was that you cant use the Bible to justify history b/c it was written by man. Every religion can use theri own books to point out "historical facts " according to their religion - what I tried to explain to ABRE was that you dont even need to go there - you can use the history of religions in general and general history to track where Christianity really came from and it did come from Africa - from our Northern Cousins up there - the type of African religion that Abre reffers to was more from the west and from the south - we have a rich history .

abre les ojos · Guru

Now we are finally getting somewhere.

It really is disconcerting that we are having this conversation in the 21st century. With all the information we are exposed to it takes a certain stubbornes or ignorance to ignore the truth, bury your head in the sand and chose to believe in a book compiled over thousands of years ago. Without questioning or criticism I might add.

Black Panther. Biblical text traces itself from the Middle East to Egypt to Israel. History and archealogy might find some contradiction in this narrative. If you detach yourself from what they teach you in church - which is basically propaganda - believe without proof. Then you would enjoy the mysteries and depths of it. Not to forget the wisdom and sometimes brutality of it.

Black Panther · Senior Member

Abre, I think you missed my point. let me try and explain it differently.

1. In the beginning there was Christianity in N. Africa (Egypt) and traditional african religion thourgh out the rest of African.

2. Christianity was taken to the West - a lot of this was b/c there were break away groups from those regions moving North - there was persecution of lighter skinned pple in Egypt at one point... (it spread was twerked made to suite western interests during the persuecutions, crusades, etc.. - tradtitional african religions were still being practiced in the rest of Africa.

3. in the precolonial era then Christianity started to come back to africa - to the north - the south - the east the west... thats how it came back to us.

4. In the 60's revisionist churches such as those of Chilembwe, and the Kimbaguism relisions spread throughout africa fast b/c they appealed to the intellectual african audience that was tring to redefine theri role in this world in the face of oppression and the liberation struggles. They are already around us these revisionits churches. They bible has so many versions, and will have new versions coming out. this is how relgions evolve. one person picke out something form the bible and they live according to that one thing.

We dont have to redefine the history & Bible. Revisionist writing has been going on for a long time in history.

ABRE - I didnt talk about skin color in my post - the only person I have had this conversation with on this forum is the late KESSO hmm ... Jesus wasnt White - that is rubbish. Jews have only become white in recent history, race and definition fo race is a social construct and beleongs in present history - the Jewish pple only becasme classfied as whit in recent history in the past 20 years. in the US census. Since 1990, all people from North Africa are listed and are told to mark off "white for race" 10 years ago they were black- next time u fly , pay attention to the race box and how under white they put "europe, north africa' it ludicrous - people in the middle east are dark skinned in color. The European Jews only moved to Israel after the second world war. The predomonant relgiion in Eritriea is Judaism. An africn nation of balck Jews.. open your minds to the possibilty- dont just knock theories - thats all I am saying.

I know about the psychologian affects of religion etc.. I was a socilogy major - i just happend to minor in African history but my main thing is the function of religion in societies - Religion is a binding factor and serves to promote order in a society and to give us guidence on how people should act. This is why many social scientist stand on the leg that religions - all of them were created by Man. We created God not the other way around. The idea of this though is something that would upset a society, cause anarchy and havoc. Hence we stick to Religions... A lot of people would not be able to cope with out it or wont be able to cope with the knowledge that we created God. This is the way our world is - so we choose not to cause CHAOS. (excpet the communists but thats a nother convesation)

Black Panther · Senior Member

Hey Abre, I am not a sheep in church - I have been to Aglican, baptist, Catholic, Presbytarian, non-denominational, churches. I have been to Mormon community evenings, and I have been to mosque. My friends are muslim, christian, bahai, and buddist. We talk about religion. I also have friends that dont believe in anything. We can talk about that too... I am the first person to encourage people to learn about other faiths it makes you stronger in your own, or it makes you klnow that your own is a religion like anyone elses... all i am saying Abre is HAVE your beleifs , talk about it , even if pple dont want to hear it ... but dont call pples beliefs rubbish b/c you are closing the door on an idea and being close minded when you do so...

abre les ojos · Guru

Actually you are wrong about Jesus colour. Jews are white. They've always been. The Jews in North Africa aquired it from the Middle East as they did Islam.

Christanity as it is i.e. followers of christ were initially a sect or a cult that spread out of Judea. Judea is where it begun. Where Jesus apparently lived and preached. I'm not going into the long history of how it migrated....

Please check your facts.

Lets save the other argument about chaos for another day.

Pope · Guru

Hot one for abre but still getting tougher.As you said at one time you need to debate than just give in.Abre will not be with you game or black panther.Abre is in full history and you guys you are in faith.One thing is that don't throw barbs abre just be cool and get on the opponents and am sure at the end abre will be a changed african christian.We dont need a Bible to believe or kORAN, what we need is to see what we need to see and the secret is in God.I am sure even abre has never seen a picture of God or even a likeness,historians have tried their best to trace the roots of God but to no avail.Am sure abre will one day understand that all the nature was started by God and its Gods drace that you are there today.On african christianity,yes but ummm, I have a reservation because before Christ I dont think people were christians,check on that and you may update me.

I have no votes at the meantime but please take on Abre again.

abre les ojos · Guru

What I find laughable is that you people actually believe that christianity is the default of human existence. That there are christians and "others" and in time everyone would be "united in christ".

What a delusion...

Black Panther · Senior Member

ABRE - Are you trying to tell me that Eritreia and its religion, Judaism, doesnt exist ?

The Chaldees were one of many Kushe tribes of the region and Ku****e means Black according to the Bibical dictionary. The Ku****es were descended from Kush a son of Ham. Godfrey Higgins,an English expert on antiquities stated in his book :
"The Chaldees were originally Negroes"

black Southern african Jews - The lemba

black ethiopian Jews

- Abre - Jesus was not white - You are wrong about him being white. Pls. check your facts. How do you know he was white ? He was dark skinned and should have looked like the people in the middle east do right now. not white not black but he had some color in his family tree. dont fall in to the images of a white Jesus. In the East they have pictures of an Asian looking Jesus. We have the image of the balck Jesus. If Christianity was a Euro religion I would say , yes, Jesus is as white as his maker. But it is Ethipian and he is the color of the Ethipians or middle eastern people at minimum...

JEWS have not always been white - Race is a socalial construct and is fluid - Go look at the US census from today and from 15 years ago, you will see how different ethnic groups have been redefined - Jews have always been white according to YOU. but the World is bigger then you.If christianity , Islam and Judaism were one religion initially, then ther history is the sam up until certain points. You can say that the origins of Judaism are the origins of Chrsitianity , are the origins of Islam.

PoPe, the Coptic Church was not known as a Christian church until later when Christianity becasme know as Christianity becasue of the break away. - The coptic were just the religion of the time.

Also, I am not talking to Abre on a standpoint of faith - I just want Abre to have an open mind.

-- Edited by Black Panther at 18:35, 2005-08-16

-- Edited by Black Panther at 18:47, 2005-08-16

game · Guru

all of you listen and listen good.

this is the gospel according to game,there has been innumerable works on the origin of christianity,the formation of the early church,i tend to rule out the claim made by black panther about judaism in eritrea(s).i think all of you who claim to know the true origin of this faith are not up to date with your studies so i appeal to all you ,to go and read the Gnostic gospels.or the NAG HAMMAD SCROLLS,these were discovered in egypt in the year 1945.these books will give you a radical interpretation of christian teaching and tradition and its origin because all of you in here are just arguing for the sake of trying to outsmart each other,intellectually that is.

i would have said that you go and read the Dead sea Scrolls but the authenticity of these scrolls is a little suspicious and dodgy,so to Abre and black panther i want to tell you guys that we are in a very extraordinary situation,because the debate we are having now occured amongst biblical scholars long before our fathers were even called blacks, but gentiles.and these were not black as you and me,but more like east eauropeans and apache indians as we call them today.these people agreed to disagree in a very unique way just to suppress their failed attempts to the origin of this christian faith.

abre les ojos · Guru

Black Panther, your revisionism is quite extraordinarily wrong.

If you read my post I said christianity is white. To Africans it is. Period. Historically it might have originated in Africa blah, blah, blah but when it got to us it was white as snow.

How many Africans do you know in MW for instance who have your esoteric knowledge of christianity and it's Judaism origins?

Judaism started in the Middle East, yes it has elements from its Egyptian roots but as an organised faith; it was in Judea that it took form, built its temples and consequently evolved into the Christianity we have today.

Like I said to Africans christ is white. When they go to church to pray they see the "image" of a white man.

Black Panther · Senior Member

Thank You for you Opinion Abre.

There are some homes in Malawi with black Christs on the wall. My grandfather had one. But for the most paert, you are right, regardless of irigin most people see Christianity and Christ as wehite from here to Malawi...But We can exercise some control over what we learn, But Govt. right now Does not reall want to empower people with knowledge, how else can a govt cont. to exploit its masses....Give them the religion, the national prayer so that "thy doth not covet my Mybach..."

Instead of saying to Africans christianity is "white" whay can we not concentrate on having textbooks in school that do portray history accurately. I have read account on Colonilism on many sights - google any history thing- they gleam over colonilism and make it sound like it was a just a bunch of guys forcing theri will over another - the encyclopedias dont talk about Colinialism as it was at attempt at Genocide in some cases, and to Me calla Spade a Spade it was the African Holocaust much like the Jewsih one. Only this time it was Hitler, it was Rhodes, and the like. ... WE need to Revise Our History and correct the truth in it weather it be the history of Religion, flowers, WAr Whatever the case... that way we wouldnt be having this discussion today - we as africans would learn history from our own sources... By going to school outside Malawi we have already been tainted and we cant escape that NONE of us... but we can pave our own way....

My revisionism, sorry to say is not MY revisionism. Its not a concept that I came up with one day when I had idle hand. I read works of those that have come before me, African and non- African - Abre - Please dont just read works from people that support your casue - pls. the KKK basic philosophy on their website probably hasnt been updated in years...last time i went there , they had extensive info. on why Jesus was white...have mercy.

Lady B · Senior Member

I tried so hard not to comment , how you holding abre? , i can see you have a lot on your plate right now , anyhow Game happy birthday hope you enjoyed your day and many more sweets kukula sachita kuyimbira miseche , amatelo paja eti ?? have a good one though

Back to the topic Well, I hang around a lot of Christians. I don't really consider my religion the same as theirs. In a way its the same. I just think some people get triped up on the language.

You think about the first commandment and it says though shalt not have any other gods before the Lord your God. Yet, you have the Catholics saying that there's 3 persons in God: the father, son, and the holy spirit. Now, I went to Sunday school, and I was never really convinced that it was all true. Now, I kinda understand it as there trying to explain somthing, but it was just in a different language than what I'm nomally acustomed to.

If you really want an eye opener read some of Alan Watt's early books on Christanity. He gives it in plan english, at least for me that is. I think the reason he quit being a Preist in the Anglican Church, and declared himself an eastern philosopher, because he found a spirt of God, or the Tao, or the Void, or the Brahaman, etc., and he wasn't able to communicate it to people in the normal "Christian Channels".

There are many rivers that lead to the sea. Just as there are many ways that lead to God, and don't think that I'm trying to "convert" you, cause I'm not. I'm just telling you what I think.

Christanity didn't "start" with Christ, it is the extension of the Jewish beliefs. So people before Christ could believe in the Jewish teachings, then Christ came along and modified them, that's the "new testament" and the old testament is the old one from the Jews. Essentially they both hold but the tack of the new one is more forgiving than the "smiting" in the old. Jews had always believed there would be a coming of their God, that was Christ. But some Jews didn't believe he was the 2nd coming and so stayed a classical Jew and are still waiting for their messiah.

When Christ died on the cross he washed away all of our previous sins with his blood (does no-one else think the tradition of drinking christ's "blood" is a little spooky (sacremental wine)), and so everyone before him had been forgiven of all their sins.

Belief is in the trinity, not just Jesus, it's the the father, the son and the holy spirit (on another note this little problem of three different things being identical caused a lot of problems for logicians who were christians).

You can never understand the ways of the Lord, how do you know this world is imperfect? It might do what it was designed to do perfectly.
The truth is, it's none of anyone's business who's closer to God or not. We (as christians) are supposed to take care of ourselves first and then when we are living a "good" example should we only tell people about God.
Most Christians beleive this because they have no control over their own lives, because they are still in a "religion" not a "relationship" with God.

God created perfect angels and perfect humans, not as robots, but with free will to choose to serve him or not. Angels then Adam disobeyed and became imperfect. Much like a thief is not born a thief, but learns it and chooses to become one.
I th ink people have christianity all wrong. Don't get me wrong, its only my oppinion i guess am entitled to it I do not think that originally christianity was believed to be the only true religion. I can easily see a prominent christian wanting more power or feeling jealous of another, or losing believers to a pagan religion, and saying that his religion was the only, and not believing would send you to hell. It makes sense. No perfect God in my eyes would care whether or not people believed in any specific view of Him. i believe that man was not created to love God, but to be loved by God. God is not there to punish for evil, but to love for good. The world was created as a playground for life. God is a parent, not a judge.

I think that covers about all of your questions, directly or not. Hope that makes you all think a bit.

It's late, but hopefully some of my jiberish will make sense

*Kiss*

abre les ojos · Guru

Wow LadyB and BlackPanther I can't argue with all these FACTS...

I mean God created angels and stuff... Who am I to refute this overwhelming evidence...

And BlackPanther, revision of history is bound to get it wrong sometimes, most of the times, what with PC and stuff.

If you want to empower people with knowledge, you have to do it outside the remit of religion as religion isn't KNOWLEDGE it's belief.

Black Panther · Senior Member

Abre - politics uses religion as the 'opium of the masses' thats why politicians keep religion close to them. Regligon is a powerful political tool - look what it did to BUSH.

I didint mean educate people about Christianity as in teach them about the faith - I mean t educate people about the history of REGLIONS - (there is a difference) from an etic point of view. Revision is not bOUND to get thigns wrong - its correcting ealrier misconception. ie how the black cowboys were written out of history books until Posse the movie came out- female cowboys have been wrotten out of history as well, revisionist - take waht was orginially written and retore it - they dont make up things... and if they do - The history we already know is wrong - but that doesnt mean we shouldnt attempt to take control of our own knowledge.

Lady B, made her points I made mine. Dont get it twisted, She was talking from the viewpoint of Christianity,and I from History- get your speakers and there points correct please.

abre les ojos · Guru

You sincerely believe that revisionism is out to correct past wrongs. Boy, you are more optimistic than I am. The truth is is isn't always the case. The historical revisionism applied to the bible for instance is always done with every scientific or archealogical discovery. Hence it is a desperate attempt to keep it going. Revisionism uses present attitides to redefine or deconstruct the past. We can never understand fully the feelings of the past. NEVER.

As for Posse. Come on, you can't get more revisionist than that. Taking a very minuite point of cowboy history and giving it more significance than it is worth. Cowboys were initially ranch owners, cattle hearders. I don't think nobody would have trusted a black man with his cattle in them days. The "outlaw" cowboy like we see in John Ford movies were not called that. They were just outlaws. Besides the movies sucked.