pimp my tomb

Black Panther · Senior Member

RE: pimp my tomb

Ngwazi · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: kesso
WE DON'T NEED THE WEST AS MUCH AS THEY NEED US. Why? They have a lot more to lose if we refuse to trade collectively with them. Without our raw materials their industries will collapse, massive unemployment, social problems etc here in the west will ensure.

Kesso,

and whats gonna happen to the raw materials that we wont sell to the west?what if our other "friends"wont need them as well?without their money,our people will suffer,our people will not have money to spend,industries will collapse and again unemployment will soar and more social problems will be on the face of the country. We need them as much as they need us,we have the raw materials,they have the know how and we have to work together to achieve something.

Ngwazi · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Black Panther
" You give a sick Malawian money for the very expensive aids cocktail. She is kept alive for an additional 4 months maybe, draining more public funds in the mean time , and eventually she dies. Yes its sad, human life is valuable, but life moves on though. you use that same money to pay wages for a single person to help build the mono., so that worker goes home, feeds his wife and kids, maybe uses the remainder to buy himself a carlsberg at the local watering hole, and he has supported a Malawian business, and helped someone get revenue etc... because we have increased his spending and buying power, in the long run he is more able to save for his kids school, his son lets say becomes a school teacher, a doctor, a president, and is able to give back to society, maybe help the children of the sick mother who also had AIDS. ....................................... This is why we need to think outside the box. By building a mono. your creating jobs, and reaching other people - we need to think ofe the spill over effects to the rest of society, and to other sectors of society, not just solve one problem (which will neevr be solved) and then move on to the next. If you stop mental slavery, people will think of ways to help themselves. They say necessity is the mother invention but it is also the father of the inertia and beggers. In our case, hand outs havent worked in Malawi, so lets try something new

Black Panther,

If you are talking about the benefits of the mausoleum will bring to the country then I should say you have used a wrong example.It beggars belief to read that :You give a sick Malawian money for the very expensive aids cocktail. She is kept alive for an additional 4 months maybe, draining more public funds in the mean time , and eventually she dies. Yes its sad, human life is valuable, but life moves on though. you use that same money to pay wages for a single person to help build the mono., so that worker goes home, feeds his wife and kids, maybe uses the remainder to buy himself a carlsberg at the local watering hole, and he has supported a Malawian business, and helped someone get revenue etc... because we have increased his spending and buying power, in the long run he is more able to save for his kids school, his son lets say becomes a school teacher, a doctor, a president, and is able to give back to society, maybe help the children of the sick mother who also had AIDS.

If your scenario is to be applied retrospectively,what about the income the coffin maker will have when he sells the coffin to the dead womans family?Wouldn't the income be used for all of the above only that this time the money might be used as wages probably for two people? I just feel your example is distateful and out of touch with reality(nothing personal)

Will the mausoleum be able to generate enough money for its own maintenance?will we have enough people coming to see it to justify its construction?As I have said before kamuzu deserves a decent resting place but just like game,I feel the money should have been used for something else even if Kesso says it was budgetted for such a purpose,they shoud not have done that,probably they should have increased the funding to the DPPs office to help speed up cases against members of the former regime.

game · Guru

panther

for now let me call you stubborn as a mule,not that am ignoring your points made but rather i find no grain of truth in it.yes you stop giving someone fish by teaching him how to fish,now my question is if you cant provide this person with equipment to fish how is he going to catch his fish?you gave me an example of Nigerians but do you know that african people face the same problems?alot of nigerians have chunks and chunks of money but they can never build a mousoleum when there is no medicine in hospitals,they would rather donate a small amount of money to hospitals,thats what we want in malawi,we dont need to give them cash in hand but provide them with improved machinery,good roads so they can take their produce to the markets.

we need a substantial amount of correctiness in the smooth running of financial affairs,look how the exchequer in england works,farmers are provided with the necessary tools to promote their standards,the government puts aside a budget that help farmers,why cant the malawi government do the same?look at how farmers finance co in malawi executed its assigned programmes,it was a big non-starter because individuals were running the company.why cant they take the money from the mousoleum budget and re-establish farmers finance under government surveillance as this will act more of a subsidy to farmers.instead throwing all that money in the drain.no disrespect to kamuzu.

kesso · Senior Member

Ngwazi

I fell it is a positive historical statement. That's it. As for your point about raw materials. That's where the consensus lies.

If Africa united and agreed on trade within its borders and collectively came together, a bit like the EU does, to regulate its prices, goods and services, you'll find out that we can gather enough clout to take on the big boys. Sure, there will be teething problems. The main issue is that we're playing a game by the rules that short change us in the first place. I say we abandon those rules and put forth a single African consensus. The main abstacle is lack of political commitment. That's Africa's main problem. The legacy of colonialism haunts Africa still.

For a start we need to start preaching; from the political level downwards, African Social Unity. Through every country in Africa. Thanks to the internet and communications that is much easier. Look anywhere in Africa and the same problem stands. Disunity. Every man for himself mentality. The few that make it are brought down by jealousy and greed. I know that because I've been practically almost everywhere in Africa. We need to say once and for all. Satnd up for ourselves!!! This is an African renaissance! Social, cultural and economical change.

That mentality of "we can't help it we just have to do what the west tells us because they pull the strings is really too defeastist and will continue to undermine African development"

Ar least Kamuzu made Malawians fell proud to be part of something...

sexmadsista · Veteran Member

wats all the fuss bout? i have no idea wat business is gotta do with the dead old dude who as i've been told used to rule malawi?

Ngwazi · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: kesso
If Africa united and agreed on trade within its borders and collectively came together, a bit like the EU does, to regulate its prices, goods and services, you'll find out that we can gather enough clout to take on the big boys.

Kesso,

Iam glad that you have used"IF",thats the key word.When was the EU(formerlythe EEC) formed and when was the AU(formerly the OAU) brought into existence?When you look at the time span and the developments and strides that each organisation has made since inception,you will accept that we Africans are a long way from building a single trading bloc.The same problem is there today even in Comesa and SADC,countries still dont agree on trade terms and what to trade.The Kenyans who needed to import sugar two or three years ago because of shortages in their own country refused our sugar claiming it contained a banned substance yet South africa which is far much more developed than both Kenya and Malawi was importing the same sugar and then re-exporting it to Kenya,does it make sense on the part of the Kenyans?no,it does't but thats their logic,our sugar to them was inferior but the "South African"sugar was of good "quality".Thats where the problem is and thats gonna affect what you are proposing,looking at products from each other as "inferior" but from a developed country as superior.So indeed the big word is"IF"and only "IF"

nambewe · Newbie

quote:
Originally posted by: Ngwazi
" Our main cash crop,tobacco,is alrady facing pressure from the anti-smoking lobby "

Ngwazi..

the above statement is not entirely true..malawi is facing tobacco crisis coz tobacco companies in malawi or whoever controls tobacco trade for malawi sold tobacco land to the buying azunguzi...

so... i will give u a scenario.... say u own a restaurant that sell msima and ndiwo...after say..five years in business..you tell your customers that "from now on...i will give you ufa..pots..ndiwo...fire..prepare your own food" how much do u think your customers will be willing to pay for your food?

thats what the tobacco companies did...they sold the our ufa..ndiwo...fire...its got nothing to do with the anti-smoking campanies..its our own leaders stupidity...

i will try to get the paper on this issue for everybody to read...

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

....so how much are we putting up for John Chilembwe and others who fought the same fight? next year's entire budget? When I was doing my studies in Malawi, I asked my lecturer why people the people from his country aren't given as much of a pull factor to go jet skiing or to dance with the gules at the lake, to enjoy the refreshing air on top of Mt Mulanje or see the beautiful animals at Nkhotakota game reserve. he answered "who's going to want to have all that fun, while people are dieing of hunger a mile away?" Sure the tomb will complement tourism, but we need to take of the more urgent matters first.

As many have suggested, first priority should be funding towards means of generating income. Patriots need to be encouraged to start buisnesses, create jobs, utilize the given resources etc.
A first step would be improving transport ie rail roads to encourage trade networks with our borders and other countries of the SADC region.

game · Guru

nambewe

maybe you got the wrong end of the stick,when Ngwazi said our tobbacco market is being threatened by anti-smoking groups he was right because farmers were being encouraged to start growing paprica to replace tobbacco as our main export,companies like Limbe leaf malawi and Dimon are the biggest tobbacco buyers from farmers,these companies are not owned by malawians its the azunguzu's as you put it who own them,so if pressure from the anti-smoking groups escalates,then losses to these companies multiplies,therefore our economy hangs by a thread,so we have to innovate before this situation gets serious.although i am not sure if papprica is a good idea.

Date: May 13, 2005

Damn Black Panther!

"You give a sick Malawian money for the very expensive aids cocktail. She is kept alive for an additional 4 months maybe, draining more public funds in the mean time , and eventually she dies"

That is so cold!!!!!!

It's true though.

Abiti Nyono · Member

Looks to me like skillzmanifest overstated the amount of money involved in this project. The actual figures seems to be $600,000 USD or R3,7m RSA rands which ultimately translate into MK68,400,000.00 at today’s currency exchange rate but which could have been MK65m at the start of the project. Does this change in figures alter your grounds of argument? Below find some links to some sites covering the story.

http://www.mg.co.za/articlePage.aspx?articleid=238160&area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__africa/

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=68&art_id=qw1115958783260B254

kesso · Senior Member

Well that puts a highly different angle on the matter. Yes, we've heard the argument, the money is better spent on schools, health, but I think the project should go ahead.

Ngwazi · Guru

Nambewe wrote,

"the above statement is not entirely true..malawi is facing tobacco crisis coz tobacco companies in malawi or whoever controls tobacco trade for malawi sold tobacco land to the buying azunguzi"

Nambewe,

Have you ever heard of the anti-smoking lobby and the impact they are having on tobacco farming in the world?If the land was sold to Azungu as per your saying,does this change the origin of our tobacco or it is the same malawi barley,malawi flue-cured?I thought these azungus are doing their farming(so you say) in Malawi hence if the tobacco is exported the country benefits?I wont say much as you have promised to provide the paper where you got the information,I will wait.

Black Panther · Senior Member

awmegod,

I know its cold- and wrong but just trying to be realistic - sometimes when ur running govt. u need to mkae decisions like that. sacrifice one for the good of many..I know a nigerian friend of mine syas he would like to be president of Nigeria, and shape it up, he is willing to have casualities in order to do this but says thats how the game is played.

nambewe,

All colonial countries- have cash crop economies- once indep. set in, it was hard for countries to diversify b/c europe used them for farming what ever crop grew well and fast in the area. Its not our fault- Tabacco anti-smoking campign is killing us, 17% of the labor in Malawi is tied up to tabacco, WHO tried to get us to sign an int'l anti smoking campaign and we refused (thank God) - and this can be an example of a little clout we can have- we stand to make more money from the people that do want to buy tabcco.

Game-

I believe we have clout- we do - countries like the USA do anything for big businesses. Do u think Nestle will stand arounf and wathc a sinlge day of business generate less funds. They wont. Even if we were to strike for one day- it would cripple an industry. the level of thinking we need to do is long term. Yes we will suffer for a week or two if the big busineeses say they wont budge - but think long term- b/c they cant hold out either. Their poloto9cal parties fundings also depend on big businesses, so they would pay attention . Look what happend when Argentina - 2nd larget supplier of beef went on strike. If you have a monopoly on something u make an impact, trade is interedependant - we need to emancipate our minds by not beliveing that we are not significant players in the world ecconomical market .

Black Panther · Senior Member

Nwazi you bring out a good point- who will supply the fishing material? One of my points is that people should concentrate on ingenuity not wait for someone to supply it , Malawians we are a layze Bunch- we dont make do - who gave people in the hunting and gathering groups the equipment? they made it themselves or found things thorugh nature b/c they were starving. The Khoi San (a.k.a bushmen - for lack of a better term), are doing okay today! They didnt have metal fishing rods in the earlier days-

Ngwazi · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Black Panther
"Nwazi you bring out a good point- who will supply the fishing material? One of my points is that people should concentrate on ingenuity not wait for someone to supply it , Malawians we are a layze Bunch- we dont make do - who gave people in the hunting and gathering groups the equipment? they made it themselves or found things thorugh nature b/c they were starving. The Khoi San (a.k.a bushmen - for lack of a better term), are doing okay today! They didnt have metal fishing rods in the earlier days- "

Black Panther,

I believe the above is wrongly attributed to me.I believe its game who talked something about fishing.

Black Panther · Senior Member

my bad Ngawzi, apologies.

game · Guru

ok panther i like your name because am a black panther myself,i love reading mutulu's memoirs.

anyway you say the khoi do things for themselves i do agree. but dont also forget that we are in modern times where machinery has taken over man power,village people cannot build a tarmac without machinery,and the government and other donor communities are the sole providers.Thats my arguement i know you do have a point.