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Post Info TOPIC: The Tumbukas


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The Tumbukas
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As a remnant of tribal societies I feel a certain amount of alarm at Lt Ngwazis statement that implies that Tribalism is inherently BAD and retain no place in Malawi let alone on this Forum. That statement is a very broad brush to apply, especially without a clear definition of the terminology itself . I was thinking the bigger picture around tribalism must be that it is all based on a difference of opinion, even if that difference of opinion is as to what is fact and what is not. Come on , we are level-headed enough to discuss such issues now and it doesnt help nobody running away from the truth. We are all tribalist and you know that as much as anybody. Check out any Sociology 101 textbook and youll find individuals, families, tribes, communities, cities, counties, states, countries and finally the world, as places where people interact and live within. Any of these, if not serving the needs of its members, would be dysfunctional. The old saw that says that It Takes a Tribe to Raise a Child is NOT a negative comment, so how would your definition of Tribalism be uncalled for if it met the needs of its members, especially with regards to successful child rearing? Thus, I disagree with the entire premise of deleting the posting. Id much rather have a functional tribe to protect me from a dysfunctional family than trying by all means to promote diversity and choice - after, of course, we have destroyed umpteen other ways of good life, whole traditional values , cultures and beautiful languages. With such thin slivers of such ways of life left in the world today, I thought it seems more important than ever to defend its validity and talk about it more than rush to conclude that its brutish and perpetuate distorted ideas about them and allow them to vanish.Lt. Ngwazi , what if we tried a different tact here, just for ducks. As to tribalisms usefulness to our society The issue of scale means it just cant be taken on as a blanket structure by us, but theres certainly a lot to learn. Again this depends on what we wish to mean by tribalism. If you take the more negative aspects, such as inherited taboos (fisi, kuhara), frequent skirmishing and sort of conflicts (Tutsi and Hutus genocide), etc., obviously these things can be poison in a diverse, large-scale, global culture armed with nukes.But as we are going to have to restructure much of our ways over the next few decades (due largely to climate change and energy issues) to at least incorporate more localisation and physically community-based living, theres a lot to learn from this Tribalism (in the anthropological sense):we have to talk about decentralisation, the democratisation of spirituality, sensible social and religious structures based on local ecological necessities rather than abstracted gods and power hierarchies, networks of friendly trade/gift economies with neighbouring tribes, etc. If we look at what it is, as a genuine way of life, theres probably some vital lessons for us in it that we would have benefited from the negative discussion. Why do we seem to have a long-term memory problem and forget that many (not all) tribal societies were perfectly happy until agricultural-industrial peoples came along to civilize them (or just kill them). Tribalism is not about tribes as much as it is about ideologies and altruism. But its a valid way of life, as is.       -- Edited by eetchef at 15:48, 2007-05-12

-- Edited by eetchef at 15:56, 2007-05-12

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Blinded by the Truth


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We all know!!

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eetchef wrote:

This thread has been deleted by the forum Lieutenants because of its nudity.



....rather deleted because of revealing truth and exposing lies.



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itotally agree with you eetchef....ithink if you can be the next moderator  this forum will be great.....

-- Edited by hova at 19:48, 2007-05-12

-- Edited by hova at 19:49, 2007-05-12

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At the end of the day, Eetchef, a tribe is just a social grouping of individuals. Culture and tradition are merely by-products of these groupings. Hang around with the dysfunctional family you mention long enough and I guarantee it will develop its own traditions, culture and shared values. In other words it will more or less become a tribe itself. Culture and tradition a nice to have, but if you consider them in purely practical terms, you will find that they are completely overrated and irrelevant. Next time you a see someone in full zulu garb and get all starry eyed over their rich tradition and culture, just take a minute to remember that the first Zulu only wanted to keep warm. I've got to go now, but I will post more of my views on your thread later on.

PS: I think you've completely missed the point RE Ngwazi's reasons for deleting the controversial topic. I'll elaborate later on.

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Ok Eetchef, I am going to break down your arguement with only your words and what i consider to be good logic...

Before I start on this though, I have to support Eetchefs concluding remarks. This topic should be left  for discussion on this forum. Only abusive responses should be deleted.


" We are all tribalist and you know that as much as anybody Check out any Sociology 101 textbook and youll find individuals, families, tribes, communities, cities, counties, states, countries and finally the world, as places where people interact and live within. Any of these, if not serving the needs of its members, would be dysfunctional"


Your statement is assertive... you are presenting your opinion as fact here - we are NOT all tribalists - and this ( I assume ) is why you have made a poor attempt to justify your assertion by equating Cities, Counties, States and Countries to Tribes. What you are overlooking here is that you are born into a tribe and yet on the other hand you can earn membership into countries - for example "Mapepala ". If you were not born as a Tumbuka there is not much you can do about it...is there now ?




"The old saw that says that It Takes a Tribe to Raise a Child is NOT a negative comment"

The saying is It takes a Village.....not a tribe. A village is a more inclusive collection of individuals since it does not suggest exclusion of any individuals  on the basis of tribe. age or even .....yea.. race.


 "so how would your definition of Tribalism be uncalled for if it met the needs of its members, especially with regards to successful child rearing? "....

You are now intruding tribalism into the village here.....not right.

" Id much rather have a functional tribe to protect me from a dysfunctional family than trying by all means to promote diversity and choice "

First not all tribes are functional and second not all families are dysfunctional and third this is your opinion here which you are presenting as the foundation for your arguement....arguements I believe should start from facts...stipulations should be made off the facts.....ever heard of "hear say"in legal arguements? Your statement is its equivalent.

"frequent skirmishing and sort of conflicts (Tutsi and Hutus genocide)"

  Are you diminishing a genocide to a skirmish...or a conflict ......OF SORT? ok maybe I'm just being too picky here but this does expose how you are trivalizing the true dangers of tribalism.

 "Tribalism is not about tribes as much as it is about ideologies and altruism"

True as this could be one cannot gain access into the tribe by just sharing those ideoligies and beliefs..again you still have to be born into the tribe. Your arguements could  also be used to support racism and again you have to be born into a race. Look at the world beyond the narrow confines of your tribal tunnel vision....Dude.. Its Beautifull.






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