judeo-christianity and malawi

game · Guru

judeo-christianity and malawi

abre les ojos · Guru

I think the claim that America is founded on Judeo-Christian principles is really nothing but a myth perpetuated by the Christian Right and Jewish lobby groups. It's not.

The political system of Malawi is a bad replica of the British colonial one I agree but that should not hamper Malawi economic development. I don't see how it does. The forces that keep Malawi and yes most of the third world in poverty are namely international trade (the WTO) world bank and IMF.

The suggestion that Africa is better of going its own route to development (which I hope is what you mean) is a sound one in principle but requires a very solid political strategy in practice. Of course the first step is for a unified Africa. Unless that happens, nothing would really move forward. The western powers have skewed the system too much that the only way to play it otherwise would be to stop playing by the rules totally. To do that requires great political leadership from ALL of Africa. Leadership in terms of trade, defence, ideology, everything. A little bit like what I reckon Chavez is envisaging for South America.

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

Malawi is distintive culturally and heretofore requires a different political model from the British one. Niether could it function under a socialist structure. Banda was well aware of this of course. He set up a system that was very similar to the Chewa tradition where chieftaincy was very prevalent.That sense of accountability in leadership is what needs to be re-established.

I know our common law is embeded in judeo-christian principles, but politics? thats non sense, if not, how would one apply this? It seems what one is genuinely asking is does real change come from grass roots, or from the top down. Obviously those with more power are going to have better representation when it comes policy. Thats not really the problem in Malawi. Its about have enough mobilisation and organisation to confront issues directly to the leadership. Instead, external influences have taken on this role. However, this only has its implications so long as there is order, which there is.

One as Canny as myself remains bullet proof to your weak "come backs" enough to where I'm not even compelled to return fire. This ego that is game, one who endulges in cultlike robert ludlum fanatic invitations at his prime never seizes to appear utterly unknowing about the place of his birth. Now its lead to forming secret societies.

coma nyondo iwe

abre les ojos · Guru

Banda didn't set up any system that was based on Chewa tradition. It was there before he came and still is after him. It doesn't really have much credibility outside it's rural sectors. Unfortunately. It might be a little too late to expand this sort of traditional mode of government and accountability to the whole country. I can see the benefits of it in the long term but I doubt if the political will is there to take up such a drastic change.

Enough of these cheap shots at each other. I think they are becoming childishly counter-productive.

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

I somewhat agree. My jurisdisiction is exceedingly inconsistent with the quality of judgment I stand of late. I've shown a certain callousness towards others. Its time I begin disagreeing without being disageeable. With that said, the gifted one will only put his mighty hand down when it is waranted for fairness to all Malawianas.

Allow me to reiterate the claim of Banda's political philosophy being a replica of the chewa culture and its triditional courts for clarity sake. Essentially order was carried out in each village by triditional courts.A system of unit villages .Sure, the whole concept of cheiftancy had been adapted earlier, but its application into a political strucuture was something Banda pieced together with the colonial Machiavellian and Pareto philosophy. And here we have the blending of both worlds, as the colonial influences tie into the judeo-christian concepts and values.

there's no need for the country to change its political structure entirely. Although the system is not entirely effective, democracy is still relatively new in Malawi. It may evolve suited to the political ideals of the state as observed in most of the older democracies. That is to say all of the great democracies have had there trials, so long they are adjusted to the times without loosing what is fundamental.

-- Edited by skillzmanifest at 09:42, 2006-08-16

abre les ojos · Guru

What on earth do you actually think are "Judeo-Christian" values? Technically there is no such thing functioning anywhere on earth. Not even in Israel - where is should have originated. Reason I say that is simple. There are certainly tens of countries that are not Christian and have "values" of their own.

Banda didn't at any point create that system of rural government. All he really did was allow it to function as long as it didn't interfere with the Party. And it never had to. There was a cosy symbiosis at work there.

No point in being revisionist about Banda.

game · Guru

skillzmanifest wrote:

there's no need for the country to change its political structure entirely. Although the system is not entirely effective, democracy is still relatively new in Malawi. It may evolve suited to the political ideals of the state as observed in most of the older democracies.

-- Edited by skillzmanifest at 09:42, 2006-08-16

this is a load of craptrap you are mouthing here,whats your point?

bingiza · Guru

The way things are going on in this country leaves a lot to be desired for instance look at these issues

The presidents prerogative to hire and fire, cant there be checks and balances? and if the other side is doing the checking its politically motivated.
Influx of bogus investors especially from China and Lebanon and the sic Nigerians, cant a firm legislation be put in place, i only hear of the fact that every investor has to deposit (am not sure with who) an amount of $ 50,000 if he has to start business in Malawi, but this is far from what is on the ground.
Do we really need to host some of these so called political or war refugees? my bet is a big no these guys are bringing in guns and mind you most of them are those that were on the bad side now that they are losing try to claim the status of refuge. Hell no
The board chairs in parastatals so wasteful with their financial dealings they give tenders to their wives, concubines and even themselves. My foot
Politicians are the next lot full of the uneducated lot, they want to implement policies copied from elsewhere. What works for Gabon cannot be the same here, we have to work out our own plans and systems. I still do not believe some of the policies we are trying to copy like Malawi has to bring ICT to the rural, if an average malawian cant afford three straight meals dump your ICT and concetrate on irrigation(maybe).
Presence of almost everthing fake on the market from Phllibs hi-fi and pressing irons.Penasonic hi-fi,GVC tv sets and the list is endless, then the issue of importation of products that are about to expire, yet we have the consumer association of malawi that has no law in place to protect the consumers

Am not pessimistic on the Judeo-christianity system it like keeps out some of the faith based religions and you know the Josephy Kony scenario in Uganda we wouldnt want a system in a system do we ? A proper system with the rule of law and the judicial to a certain extent should be independent.

If i may ask what is the judicial system like in UK,US ? Does the president appoint judges as well as the attorney general ?

-- Edited by bingiza at 10:08, 2006-08-17

awmygawd · Guru

In the US, the president nominates federal judges who are then confirmed by the senate. The AG in the US is actually a cabinet member and heads the Dpt of Justice, so yes, the president appoints him as well. UK judges will (process still in transition) now be appointed by the Lord Chancellor (equivalent to MW's MOJ) as advised by the Judicial Appointments Commission (new independent public body).

abre les ojos · Guru

READ THIS AGAIN. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A JUDEO-CHRISTIAN SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT!!!!!

bingiza · Guru

abre les ojos wrote:

READ THIS AGAIN. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A JUDEO-CHRISTIAN SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT!!!!!

if we have to apply judeo-christian principles to malawi politics will mean the birth of tribal and regional wars,

I know it doesnt exist, but i was only commenting on it bcoz i think its the idea that Game has (Judicial in conjuction with christian values).

Its all a fallacy anyway.

abre les ojos · Guru

What Christian values? What Are Christian values in the Judicial system? I don't know anywhere on earth where such exist. Certainly not in Malawi...

Pope · Guru

game wrote:

if we have to apply judeo-christian principles to malawi politics will mean the birth of tribal and regional wars,thats what judeo christianity is all about and thats what america and britain is all about.segregating the less fortunate.so whatever we do to bring change in malawi it has to be deeply rooted in malawi culture,then malawi will open its wings and fly.

The only problem is that malawi has no national culture that would put all races under it.The only solution is to use forein copycats which is widely accepted by the majority.This problem will exist in malawi for the rest of our life.The only way to move faster is by intergrating into these parties(the most popular ones as members and gradually take over)though its a slow process.

The other thing is the way britain and us got formed.

bingiza · Guru

abre les ojos wrote:

What Christian values? What Are Christian values in the Judicial system? I don't know anywhere on earth where such exist. Certainly not in Malawi...

Abre lets not go into details of this as an athetiest(sp) you should no better, this is something that has been discussed over and again its something you cant buy .

As a christian Game says the fear of the almighty can bring sense into some of these corrupt officials, the judicial comes in because of the presumed independence they are supposed to have most definetely Malawi is a bad example.

abre les ojos · Guru

bingiza wrote:

abre les ojos wrote:

As a christian Game says the fear of the almighty can bring sense into some of these corrupt officials, the judicial comes in because of the presumed independence they are supposed to have most definetely Malawi is a bad example.

This has nothing to do with atheism. Every religion has "the fear of the almighty" or of some power above that judges vice and virtue.

Religion is NOT enough as a force to keep society in place. That's why we have government.

Do you even know what you're talking about?

game · Guru

abre les ojos wrote:

READ THIS AGAIN. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A JUDEO-CHRISTIAN SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT!!!!!

abre,there is no such thing as jodeo-christian system of government,but there is a government or governments with jodeo-christian principles,notice the difference.America and other western countries have embraced this kind of thinking,some from adam to this day.democratically the values of the people and their cultures are misrepresented and misguided.for example in malawi,we have a majority of learned men and women who still think that being democratic is being like the americans or the british.

we need to have a political faculty which values the malawi tradition in the virtues of democracy.At the moment we dont have that.A graduate from chanco or any other institution leaves college with academic disciplines which focuses on a specific aspect of life,you tend to wonder after a four year curricullum what the student knows is his specified proffession.he can be democratically minded,but can never be civically enganged.what kind of a citizen will he be?that is why you see misers and tyrants in our political circle,we embrace things that are not ours in the name of democracy.so all we need is a political faculty which will pin point more immediate needs of the society.

abre les ojos · Guru

America or Britain, or anywhere in the west are not based on Judeo-Christian principles. What are They anyway. Do you mean democracy? Hardly? Democracy came from Greece. A system of government that predates Judea or Christ. And please Game stop using Adam like it is actually history. As if life began 6,000 years ago.

This thread shows a lack of understanding of political processes and history. You know what I'm too tired to debate this. In fact, I 'm tired of this forum in general. I'm deleting my account for good.

game · Guru

abre les ojos wrote:

America or Britain, or anywhere in the west are not based on Judeo-Christian principles. What are They anyway. Do you mean democracy? Hardly? Democracy came from Greece. A system of government that predates Judea or Christ. And please Game stop using Adam like it is actually history. As if life began 6,000 years ago. This thread shows a lack of understanding of political processes and history. You know what I'm too tired to debate this. In fact, I 'm tired of this forum in general. I'm deleting my account for good.

sober up mate,i want to treat your posting as a work of a drunk knowing you.just to clarify where you didnt understand,i used "from adam" meaning from the begining,its a phrase mate.i thought you knew how to construct a sentence,thats what we learned in school isnt it?

do you really understand judeo-christianity or you jumped on this issue without any knowledge of it like you usually do?almost each and every country on this earth is a political institution with a religious dimension,take rome for example,Iran,Israel,the british monarchy even greece.go back and consult your history books am not here to give you a lecture.infact delete your profile its your choice not mine.i used to learn alot from you,but these days you have lost your swagger mate,you are no longer stimulating,if you cant handle a simple political debate then you need to check yourself.do you ever wonder why the muslim countries unite when it comes to fighting the american and british aggression?

in africa we were colonised because we didnt fight this aggression,up to now we are still brainwashed,alot of untold oppression still exist in africa especially malawi,the west use the IMF,world bank and others to monitor and manipulate economies,they did the same to Russia,Cuba,they cant even wait for the death of Fidel castro so they can impose an anglo american front.go on delete your profile.

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

judeo-christian influences is a very straight forward. One with an understand of modern law and early christian ethic can easily make the correlation. It also would require knowledge of scripture and hebrew culture.

the countries who've adopted these principles may not neccessarily be christian, thats why there is the separation of church and state. Value systems can be viewed in whatever way one would wishes. however, one would have to take into account the origins of common law.

Anyways, yes democracy came from the greeks. But its since changed, structurally. The kind of democracy we know today has evolved from how it was instucted then.

abre les ojos · Guru

You mistakingly attribute all human ethics to religious; namely judeo-christian root. That is innacurate. These movements of humanist values began way before Christianity. Certainly before Judaism. You see, the written Judaist scriptures do not, and I repeat, DO NOT predate Ancient Greece or Rome or even Chinese and Indian cultures. Let's not even get to Egypt.

What I see happening is a mistaking the biblical timeline for historical fact. When you do so, everything seems to stem from the Middle east...

Africa had its forms of ethics. Chinese culture did too. So does every culture on earth. To attribute this present system to the Judeo-Christian one is a fallacy. One cannot even define what one means by Judeo-Christianity as system.

Are you trying to say that the etchics of crime and punishment began with the mythical 10 commandments? Of course it didn't. Laws are inbuilt into animals DNA. All intelligent life have certain codes of conduct. Maybe not as clear cut as ours but pretty close. Thats why animals look after their young...

My point is, it's only centuries AD that these collections of what one can call a Judeo-Christian movement began to exist. But what is it? Can you define it? Is it even original? No it isn't...

game · Guru

skillzmanifest wrote:

yes democracy came from the greeks. But its since changed, structurally. The kind of democracy we know today has evolved from how it was instucted then.

and greek politics has adopted other political forms that originated from the same greeks,which means the jewish-christian principles which other countries like america embraced can also influence the original greek politics.like in america city states were governments so were the greek cities,remember athens and sparta?and history tells us that greek politics was a blend of Turks and venetians but because of identity they all fell under the greek umbrella.

the romans attacked and conquered greek bringing along their own cultures to mix with greek culture,so lets not forget that the same Romans conquered israel and embraced the jewish christian principles,making it easy to mix with greek politics which later dissolved into jodeo-christianity.