anthem

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

anthem

abre les ojos · Guru

I know that they say one has the right to their own opinions so I would be as forthcomming as I possibly can.

What on earth do you mean by the right values. The level of progression in a society is not how well it treats its own, but how well it accepts others, how well it adapts to change. Tradition is the illusion of permanence.

And Homosexuality has nothing to do with tradition or values. It's sexual preference. Period. It's who you like sleeping with. Who you fancy. It's your choice. And the moment people start preaching that any minority in a society should be stoned or excluded - members, mind you, that don't harm anyone, we have a real and serious problem.

Those lyrics are hardly compelling too and I don't see what God has anything to do with you latter statement...

It might not be woth the effort for you but some people do feel that they need to be heard... And they should be given that right.

Black Panther · Senior Member

Envy - put down envy - Envy eats away at the soul of Malawi - Material items. This is why when leaders get in to power they are concerend with what they have - tangible goods and what they can give - so that they are envied. This is one of our biggest concerns not who you sleep with. Looking beyond gender preference is a sign of progression - progression is aslo relative -

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

The moment you tell someone you are a Malawian, you are giving them an identity. It is a commonality that we all share with regards to history, culture, geography, and to some extent, customs. The very fabric that constitutes a nation. We come from a nation that is currently facing a food crisis appeal in 28 of its districts-real problem-worth the effort! And that is what we identify ourselves with. Gay rights?-something we do not identify ourselves as Malawians with.

yes! values!
Values are not only embedded in the law, but are in the very foundations of the Malawian household. Children are taught at very early stages about the structure of a family by merely observing their parents. And this is the very premise upon which values concerning" the family" are developed in later life. We spend most of our child hoods grooming ourselves for our adult roles. It a rare phenomenon for children to be learning about homosexuality within a Malawian house hold, because we are not acustomed to those values.

I understand how the western ways could have brain washed you into thinking the whole sex-in-the-city raunchy behavior as an acceptable way of living is okay...well sorry. In Malawi, we do not refer to sex as a "quicky" or that four letter word that is commonly in US/UK.. In Malawi, Gays and prostitutes are looked down upon-bad parenting!

In Malawi, the union between two people is called a "banja", there is no two ways about that. It is customary that this unity be between people of the opposite sex because it is considered a sacrid event, despite what your views about spiritually related customs may be.

-- Edited by skillzmanifest at 02:38, 2005-10-29

abre les ojos · Guru

Skillz you are wrong on many counts but I won't waste time in nit-picking.

However, I'll say that you over-estimate (like may conservative types like yourself) the term "values". Believe it or not there are NO unifying values in Malawi. No single traditional value system that defines Malawi as a nation other than the geo-political one - The border.

You said...

I understand how the western ways could have brain washed you into thinking the whole sex-in-the-city raunchy behavior as an acceptable way of living is okay...well sorry. In Malawi, we do not refer to sex as a "quicky" or that four letter word that is commonly in US/UK.. In Malawi, Gays and prostitutes are looked down upon-bad parenting!

Well you couldn't be more wrong. Have you ever heard someone from Nsanje swear? Or gone out on a piss to any club in Malawi. The society is by and large a lot more promiscuous than you might think. I know that for a fact because I worked in several of those environments. The amount of Malawian family men who sleep with prostitutes is astounding. The level of AIDS infection in the family units is the evidence. It is certainly NOT a western thing.

And just because the country is undergoing a food crisis is no reason to stop every other thing or ignore the rights of any individual group. If 5 citizens want their behaviour to be decriminalised, the level of progress in a society is the ability to listen to them. To give them a voice. The criminlisation of homosexuality is a British influenced part of the Malawi constitution and not a Malawian "value" thing like I think you suggest.

Malawi is a funny case. The fact that the transition from a one-party, demi-god ruled, heavily censored state did not come about by overt violent means but as a result of external pressures and the fact that Banda was just too old to instill fear any longer might explain why it is still the African country with the most "denial complex".

One has to only look at the political landscape to be aware of how Malawi is always going to be ruled like a one-party state even with a number of other parties.

The effect that has on the individual citizen and the culture in general is a high level of blind patriotism and misguided self-awareness, coupled with obstinate atavistism. Malawians are just too ridgid to change. They won't even adjust their diet and would rather go with all these maize shortages. I hate to see what would happen to the tobacco industry, now that western countries are banning it left, right and centre.

The society is - and lets face it - extremely "backward". All of you who live abroad and visit once in a while or often would testify.

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

There are thousands of places to be accepted as a gay, but I'm afraid Malawi is not one of them. As I said before, Malawians are a god fearing people. It is evident in the national anthem,the constitution and various other documents. This also reflects in the people themselves. Even in times of drought and famine, Malawians always remain hopeful.This stems from the strong religious institutions within our country. All of which, do not support homosexuality. Further, there are no tribes that encourage such practices either. .Now I'm sure there are other societies that would gladly recieve those confused gay friends of yours and Its probably best that they stay there.

there is nothing that disgusts me more than when people start equating the fight for gay rights to the black struggle. Blacks have suffered way more and have experienced real discrimination. . People are not given the choice of what race they want to be, you are what you are. However, this concept does not apply to the homo's because choosing to sleep with a member of the same sex is a decision itself. People do choose to be gay, its not some genetics thing.

-- Edited by skillzmanifest at 21:07, 2005-10-31

abre les ojos · Guru

You miss the point by a long shot.

Malawians are a God-fearing people. Yes, only of course if you believe that God hates gays and homosexuality is wrong by God. As far as your ignorance is concerned I would not even bother to insult your intelligence by suggesting that you actually believe what you just said about race and sex. No one equates racial struggle with sexual discrimination, especially not gays; who can be black OR white. The argument is that discrimination is wrong period.

Whether you believe that homosexuality is un-Malawian is besides the point. They would always be Malawian gays as there are gays EVERYWHERE in the world. And the rest of the world would have to accept them sooner or later. It's that simple.

Malawi is no exception...Culturally or otherwise. Sexuality is stronger than cultural influence. And the forces that govern human sexuality are more potent than what society deems acceptable.

chichi · Senior Member

Yes Malawi is a God fearing country oh yes and i am God fearing woman thats why i can never discriminate gays. Trust me i dont like it and i think when it comes to the bible its just wrong, but i am not here to judge or discriminate anyone. No matter what ur preferences are ur still human ur were still created by the all mighty creator. Lets leave it to him to judge but until then i will love my brothers and sisters, because God says love ur neighbors he didnt say love them because they are straight u love a person as they are. Have u ever gone to a dealer and see some cars that are used on the ticket it says as is. Meaning u take it or leave it as is. God is the same way he takes u as u are and then u understand and let him lead u he molds u into a person he wants u to be. Love comes from acceptance so lets accept one another no matter race or sexual preferences.

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

The Lord does say love your fellow man, not sleep with him. The bible makes it very clear that homosexuality is wrong. The reason why I made it a priority to make it a point that Malawians, before anthything, are a god fearing people is because we as a god fearing society deem it wrong as well. Sure there are those people that have gone astray and have grown acustomed to such behaviours, but it is an external influence. It is in no way rooted in Malawian culture. Therefore, something foriegn. And is bad thing, which should not be viewed as something normal. Introducing such things to the community will bring about confusion, especially for the children.

I hate the sin, not the sinner!

-- Edited by skillzmanifest at 16:00, 2005-11-03

abre les ojos · Guru

Skillz you must be a little presumptious believing that you know what God said everyone should and should not do because you read some age old book written long ago. Well, your self-righteousness doesn't cut it in this day and age wether you accept it or not.

I HATE (and hate is a strong word) those people who believe that they can be the judges of morality. That their outdated modes and values can define the entire world. Ignorant, bible-bashing, fundamentalists - You know who you are!!! Claiming that for some reason they can dictate who one can have intercourse with or be attracted to.... Bollocks to them!

The idiocy of hiding behind the illusion of tradition and morality is the only basis of which they can argue their outmoded points and it is great that we are moving away from such a world and to PC, I will be ever grateful.

People question me why I am hostile to religious types... Skillzmanifest is a ready made example why... Epitomising ignorance with stubborness and self-righteousness.... The worse kind.

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

Ever wonder why kids with homosexual parents never turn out to be properly functioning adults? Its because they don't have a set of "normal parents". Its either they lack the presence of a father figure, or lack the presence of a mother figure(depending on who's gay). And most of the time, they are left to compromise for that of which they lack.Dont you think your children deserve to have a man to call their father, and a woman to call their mother? Malawi needs families that can produce children who will be porperly functioning fathers and mothers to their offspring aswell. We can only achieve this by setting good examples for our own children. Malawi's future depends on it.

I only wish the best for the kids in Malawi. That they have a set of parents that can give them the right guidance, just like I had. So you see, the matter is far deeper than "who you sleep with". It concerns the direction, we, as an african nation are headed. And the last thing Malawi needs is a generation full of drag qeens, dykes, and a whole bunch of people who are confused about who or what they are. This world needs more African leaders, who can distinguish what is constructive and what is detrimental to our people. What we should and should not borrow from other cultures. And that, my friend, is why take a conservative stand.

I value family

abre les ojos · Guru

"Everybody knows that homosexual parents never turn out properly functioning kids'? Where did you get that study from? Your church? I mean skillz YOUR parents aren't homosexual are they? So what's YOUR excuse, huh? You give me an example and we'll close this one. Either that or your ridiculous prejudices can go the same route as yourself... To hell!

Nali · Member

Skillz what you wrote there about your own childhood having a mother and father who cared for you is a perfect childhood. Unfortunately nowadays this is not so. Nowadays we have parents who love each other and their children, parents who are always arguing and fighting most of the time and dont care about their children, Single parents and gay parents. The first option is always the best one but the others are far much better than having parents who are always fighting.

Gay parents can be as good parents as heterosexual parents. It would be wrong to say most of children who are raised by gay couples dont turn up properly. The majority of children who dont turn up properly are those from families where the mother and father are constantly fighting, abused background.

The only thing that can be used against gay couples raising children especially in conservative countries like Malawi is that the public or society has not yet accepted gays. So in that case it will be psychologically difficult for the children because they will have to fight the battles of gays and they will constantly be teased by their friends.

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

One of the most effective ways children learn is by example. Male and female are the default set of parents right after child birth.There is no disbute over that, its the univeral code. Why must a child be denied such a basic privledge? and yes! it is a priviledge to have a man to call a father, and a woman to call a mother. The example of a homosexual couple distorts this arrangement, and inturn may cause a child to be confused about all the things that go along with sex education ie interactions betweeen members of the opposite sex.

It is true, the Malwian society deems homosexuality as a sin to the third power. And quite rightly should. It goes against the very instituitions that have brought Malawi into its existance.

Abre

The amuzing thing about your plight is you call me all these things reffering to my stance on this issue, yet you turn around and go about discriminating against and persecuting people of the christian belief. Of what pleasure do you have in oppressing people from their freedom of religion? There is no need for people like you in our country, which is a good reason why you should hide yourself in shame, drag-queening the streets of UK. You are the very reason your father should have listened when they told him not to marry that prostitute. Skillz has no time for the likes of you, recieving backshots for a living, do your own research!

-- Edited by skillzmanifest at 20:58, 2005-11-13

abre les ojos · Guru

You are the one who says homosexuality is wrong with reference to your religion. That is why I condemn you and those who follow that 2 thousand year old trash.

I don't have time to prosecute religioun fanatics, I just clearly state facts and reason that come from history, science and philosophy - facts that your religion blinds you from seeing. Your condemnation of homosexuality being self-evident.

Since you are not a child-psycologist, you really don't have any facts or statistics about child development and the causes of family dysfunction - what you are stating is a result of your prejudices than anything realistic.

Homosexuality might be condemned in Malawi but I know, personally a few homosexuals myself - living in underground closets.

Things are bound to change. If you ever were to read about the history of prejudice you'll find one common thing. It is all based on ignorance and time always changes it. There still will be people like you skillz who'll keep singing from that age-old hymn sheet of hypocrisy. Saying that God is love but hosexuals should burn in hell - but you are a diminishing minority.

Funny how the EXACT same language that was used to segregate blacks is modified to do the same to homosexuals.

MISS THANG · Senior Member

Skills

Unless you are telling us that you come from a homosexual backgound then how the hell do you know that kids from a homosexual background/family never turn out to be fully functioning adults? From the homosexual friends i've got i know that they are probably the most "normal" family background you can get. For one thing they are honest and very loving.They are also stable people. They know what they are and they don't go about trying to force you what they are. Not everyone agrees with their way of life but still it is their life.

I believe that it doesn't matter where you come from as long as there is love there. And whether you are from a God fearing country or not should not be relevant to ones hapiness.

LIVE YOUR LIFE THEY WAY YOU WANT TO LIVE IT. IF IT MAKES YOU HAPPY, GO FOR IT!

MALAWI OR NOT, GAYISM IS HERE TO STAY.

Nali · Member

skillzmanifest wrote:

There is no need for people like you in our country, which is a good reason why you should hide yourself in shame, drag-queening the streets of UK. You are the very reason your father should have listened when they told him not to marry that prostitute. Skillz has no time for the likes of you, recieving backshots for a living, do your own research! -- Edited by skillzmanifest at 20:58, 2005-11-13

Just what you wrote here shows what type of a character you are. People like you skillz are the reason why Malawi will never progress. You are afraid of new ideas, you are afraid of what you dont agree with, you are afraid of change, you want things to remain the same. And to say that Malawi doesnt need the likes of Abre because of his ideas and sexual orientation is pathetic. Malawi is losing out alot. We need people who are educated, who have different ideas, who have seen the world to help in developing Malawi. It shouldnt be about their sexual prefarance, it shouldnt be about religion, it should be about what a person can offer Malawi. Abre would offer more than you probably ever will. Whether you like it or not the truth is Malawi needs educated, experienced people like Abre.

Abre

Yes this same method was used to segregate blacks. Its a long road a head for the gay community, but there is hope, more and more people are becoming aware of the gay and lesbian´s issues. One day this will all be history just like racial segregation. This hatred towards the gay community will probably, like rascism never completly varnish, we are still going to have people like Skillz, but slowly and slowly these people are going to be in the minority.

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

Yes!skillz will not entertain new ideas that are detrimental to our society. Just because the west portrays itself to be a more "advanced society" or a better "developed society", economically performing better than Malawi, should not mean we accept everything from the west as the only way to develop. Malawi does not need to be built on warfare, slavery, and all the large-scale evils that separates our history from theirs. And accepting homosexuality should in no way be somewhat of an indicator of development-thats disgusting. If there is anything we have learned from those countries who's economies have rapidly developed over the years; is that we as a nation can grow and not abandon the very things that define us as a society. There is nothing Malawi will gain from people who entertain new ideas that are destructive to the social order of Malawi's future, and I, by all means will never yield and will always reject such ideas.

Society owes its continued survival to the family, founded on marriage(husband&wife), the "banja". Homosexuality, ultimately undermines marriage as the basis of a stable society. The redefinition of marriage, which would become, in its legal status, an institution devoid of essential reference to factors linked to heterosexuality i.e. procreation and the kind of people these kids will be. You would either be depriving a child of having a mother or a father. In the end, they are hold the same status as a bastard, being minus a mother or a father. Here is where the issue becomes a question of moral, what we value. I'm sorry, but noone deserves to be a bastard, or equivalent to one. I believe everyone deserves to have a Mom and a Dad. If you think otherwise, then you should be at question to yourself. What kind of person are you? what good are you to anyone?

*there are documented cases of confusion occurring in children with homosexual parents. If this interests you, do you own research. I frankly don't have the timne of day to be present evidence.

I don't need to a degree or any form of certification to make a logical points about this issue. I've been held captive on the slave ship of indoctrination, ironically called the "education system", for as long as I can remember. Such documentation is made available to me at few punches of a keyboard.

Sure, some of you might know one or two homosexuals, and they may even be Malawian. But the fact is, in Malawi, it is wrong. The majority at large regards it not only as a taboo, but a sin to the third power manifest in western civilisation. Go to any village and ask how many homo's there are. OR if he even knows what a gay marriage is. Ask a head man in the most rural village, where Malawi's real majority are, if its wrong. You'll be surprised to discover that I'm not the only one. As a matter of fact, we,the majority(in malawi), who are against gayism, will stay that way. As a god fearing people noone chooses to to lead that kind of life.

Religion doesn't blind me from anything. If anything, it is where the basic components of the modern law were founded upon. It serves as the basis of what society views as moral issues. And Miss thing, when you say people should live their lives the way they want so long as they're happy, stipulates that people have the right to kill, so long as it makes them happy. If people soley did things to make themselves happy, other peoples rights would be infringed upon.That line of thinking encourages rape, murder and all sorts of ill deeds. We must conserve what protects us-the law, the bible. Remember the lord is love, and hates the sin not the sinner. . So should we. And abre, science, history and philosophy do not prove or disapprove anything the bible says-remember that.

I really don't care who you compare me to, or what you call me. Those who will help Malawi, will become manifest in the future. But I know for a fact, Abre won't cut it. The phrase, "land of opportunity" has a different meaning to some of you. I guess It's simply an excuse to indulge in such ill behaviour, performing shameful operations. Well you can keep those opportunities and shove them in the same place you shove everything else-up your*#@@.

-- Edited by skillzmanifest at 01:52, 2005-11-16

abre les ojos · Guru

Skillz, you realy are a hypocrite. You live in America and talk all this stuff about what is right for Malawians. You actually ahve the audacity to air your petty prejudices here and claim that there are actual studies that show that homosexuality affects kids. I don't know where you got these studies from - one reckons from your church - but I'll be happy to read them because if they are accurate then the people who took the studies would be rewarded the Nobel prize.

You see it doesn't matter whether majority of Malawians hate homos - majorities are often wrong. Don't get me started on examples (George Bush for one).

Slavery was awfully popular. The advocates even quote the bible. Majority of Americans think going to Iraq was right. People are misinformed about things easily that's why prejudice exists in the first place.

Now I'm actually accusing you of ignorance and prejudice. It's people like you that keep homophobia alive by airing these type of opinions.

You say that society owns its survival to families. Unless you live in a parallel universe or are just an idiot you'll be aware that people can have offsrping without actually being in a family. And Homosexuality is not something that spreads like a flu. You are either one or you ain't. There aren't more homos than they were a hundred years ago, they're just accepted now. And the populace is still increasing, isn't it?