Is morality just something trivial...?

Masipeko · Newbie

Is morality just something trivial...?

abre les ojos · Guru

ABSOLUTELY.

MORALITY IS ABSOLUTELY SYBJECTIVE. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS UNIVERSAL MORALITY IN A WORLD OF 6 BILLION PEOPLE. THERE ARE TRIBES IN SOME PARTS OF THE PACIFIC THAT HAVE LITTLE OR NO CONTACT WITH THE OUTSIDE WORLD. THEIR IDEAS MIGHT BE PRIMITIVE TO US BUT IT WORKS WELL FOR THEM. I TAKE WITH SUSPICION ANY ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE OR PEOPLES TRYING TO IMPOSE THEIR SENSE OF MORALITY ON OTHERS I.E. THE USA.

MORALITY IS CULTURAL, HISTORICAL. A SET OF TRIED AND TESTED VALUES OF ANY GROUP OF PEOPLE.

ONE CAN CONCLUDE HOWEVER, THAT SIMPLE NOTIONS OF MURDER, THEFT ETC CAN STAND AS UNIVERSAL MORAL VALUES SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE CONFLICT THAT THEY BRING ABOUT. BUT STATES DO IT ALL THE TIME. THEY MONOPOLISE, OR RATHER WISH THEY COULD MONOPOLISE MURDER AND CALL IT WAR; OR PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKES. BUT THE PHYSICAL ACT OF MURDER IS THE SAME NO MATTER WHO IS PERPETUATING IT. IT IS THE EXTINGUISHING OF LIFE. SIMPLE. SAME CAN BE APPLIED TO THEFT.

MORALITY IS EVER CHANGING. 2000 PLUS YRS AGO IN ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME. HOMOSEXUALITY, BEASTIALITY WAS PRACTICED AND NO ONE BATTED AN EYELID. BUT WHEN CHRISTIAN MORALITY TOOK HOLD IT CHANGED. NOW IT IS COMING BACK; AT LEAST THE FORMER. AND THE MORALITY OF IT ALL IS SHIFTING BACK. AT LEAST IN THE WEST. DIFFERENT IN AFRICA WHERE WE DIDN'T HAVE THE WRITTEN TRADITION SO WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE WHETHER IT WAS THE SAME BEFORE CHRISTIANITY. BUT WE DID HAVE THE KILLING OF TWINS IF WEST AFRICA AND STILL HAVE FEMALE CIRCUMCISION ETC.

WHY WE NEED MORAL VALUES IS A MORE APPROPRIATE QUESTION. WHAT IS THE USE OF A MORAL CODE OR SETS OF CODES?

WILL ANSWER NEXT TIME AROUND.

Lady B · Senior Member

abre les ojos , why do you type in capital letters?are you angry ?? no offense but it comes across very agressive, back to the topic , so in a world with more people living together in less space, how does morality relate to us today? So, where does this leave us? Is morality just a case of what I like and dislike, or is it what Priests like or dislike? Either way, to me it looks like “Man is still the measure of Morality.”

Or do you think morality is more like, (as Jesus puts it) "Do to other as you would have them do to you?" But this is still just a slight modification of the original premises. Morality is now treating others, as we ourselves want to be treated. Again this comes back to what’s good is what I like done to me, while what’s evil is what I don’t like done to me?

*Kiss*

Black Panther · Senior Member

Look, just b/c u dont like something doesnt mean its evil, maybe it just not for you... if u dont agree w/sex b4 marraigne doesnt mean its evil for example...

anyways ever thought of how close God = Good, and Evil = Devil ?

Reglion was created to give mankind some sort of morality, so that people know how to act, It is a socail contstruct as is Religion. The temrs being that similar was not accident.

also, Abre, I agree with Lady B, please do not yell in the discussion - on the internet, caps means yelling, so please wathc ur tone, we can still read your message and get its point with out it being in all caps.

-- Edited by Black Panther at 17:29, 2005-06-10

Lady B · Senior Member

Life is filled with subjective morality. The Ancient Greek Sophists believed that "man is the measure of all things," meaning everything will have to be judged by human reason and there is nothing beyond it. So Socrates understanding this proposition that "if man is the measure of all things," then he certainly would believe that to "know thyself" is the only why to know the world. But it means that morality is tied up in our own reason, not something external and “greater”. While on the other hand Christian religion has a base outside human reason, revelation. So evidentially "man is not the measure of all things," but God is the measure speaking through Scripture. Then morality is just a case of religious interpretation of dogma.

what do you say Pather agree/disagree ??

*Kiss*

Masipeko · Newbie

If one does not belive in the moral repricusions of doing something imoral, then it no longer is imoral.

Morals are based on fear. Morals are the basic way to control something.

At first they sound like a good idea. Who wants to see incest, or other taboo's reguarly. But then they stretched to other things.

Thou Shall not Steal. This enforces Ecnomy.

Thou Shall not murder this creates justice.

So basically morals are good, but in higher extentions they become what form society in a whole. And they are created by what "society" in a whole wants.

So basically you sir are correct in saying that its what we want. but it is also what we fear. Also we have to deal what collectively we want and dont want vs what the indiviuals want and dont want.

A better example of this, sad as it is, President clinton at the time did a supposed imoral thing. He did it because he did not fear the repricusions. But because the rest of society reinforced the repricussions and showed him that he could still be punished it was once again an imoral thing to do.

Black Panther · Senior Member

Lady B,

I agree, and were heading in the same direction i think - tieing up what u said about Socretes and what I said about Man creating God.

morality is not tied up to some 'greater' force - religion is a social construct. Man created God and Religion to give guidelines on morality and to make it seem like there is a higher force that is guiding us, but it is us that is guiding morality b./c we created God to create us, to guide us, and to give us measurements - we are still the measurment of all things and relgion (which can now be seen as synonymous with morality) - was created by us, for us, we set the measuremnt there too...

good quote lady B - ur point are always appreciated - i think if we met we could have an interesting discussion.

Lady B · Senior Member

I totally agree with you, Pather
Open your heart. The beast inside you is innocence itself

we should meet honey

which side of the world are you ??

*Kiss*

Black Panther · Senior Member

Im in Bush country, you?