Bushmen

Black Panther · Senior Member

Bushmen

Black Panther · Senior Member

this was a college class in the US by the way- where prof. used it in class.

kesso · Senior Member

I must say you have a wealth of topic to contribute and I find it a pleasure everytime I see you're posts.

Political correctness! It can be too much; as in the UK where they banned the nursery rhyme "ba ba black sheep" because it could offend black people, or it could be used positive to prevent discrimination of the disabled.

I'd say the term "bushmen" falls somewhere in between. What matters here is mainly semantics. Is the "bush" in the term used as in "chimidzi" or is it bush as in the noun?

What matters is do the people who are the true bushmen find it offensive to them? How did the term come about? was it in a derogatory fashion like "****". Or has the word just become offensive because of the posibility that it can be used as an adjective...

With all this in mind why don't we just call them Khoi. It's Authentically African and as far as I'm concerned, inoffensive.

Xai · Newbie

As a person from a country with its own Khoi San population I must say I do not find the term "bushman" offensive. As kesso said its the semantics. However what I do know is that if I told one of my countrymen that he was a bushman he would take offense. I think this is because in some cases we have used the term as a derogatory one. That said black people tend to go overboard. Black Panther can I ask in what context the term was used in your anthropology class. Because the term bushman is a collective term for the Khoi San and other tribes with similar tradition and physical features.

As for Kesso's point on PC-ness. I agree we have gone too far. The blacks are offended by anythingand everythin and the whites are scared sh*tless that they may be offending us so they strike out any term that could relate to race.

Do you ever notice when you're with a white friend and they're describing a black friend they tend to hesitate before they say the person's race... they're SCARED...

*bisous*

Paudah_Paf · Member

Yes, I would be offended.
Why?
Simply because I believe that in the context it was used then and now it implies a primitive and backward people, intelligent monkeys.
This is simply not true. Not then and not now.
There's not many who'd take the literal meaning.

Black Panther · Senior Member

In the class, they used it in a descriptive way. but in anthropology classs u'd think there would be cultural sensitivity. they are supposed to be unbiased, but they were using a term that was coined to insult blak pple. Its like going to an american history class and hearing them use n*gger in text book to describe african-americans.

In answer to your question , the resason it was banned from school post apartheid was b/c pple were using it as an insult in the apartheid yrs. to imply backwardness, a wildness, and to imply that they were archaic. The term is used to describe these ethnic groups that essentially do live in the bush- but it is like saying chimidzi.

Some of these people arent offended, they say its cuz they do live in the bush and they are men. but others in this group are not. I think that if its offending 50% of the people, better to just not use it. but i bet if someone , lets say a white american came to a black malawian today and said "are you a bushman" even just asking it out of ignorance you 'd be annoyed. If they came and said , "you bushman!" u'd definatly be annoyed.

the term bushman was also coined by the english. Even in direct translation, they never called themselves that. Term was first used by white settlers to insult people they thought were in ferior. They called themselves Khoi san. Can u imagine goin to Nelson Mandela and saying, " oh , Sir, U look like a Bushman" even if u were asking it innocently ? nah.

I think we should use Khoi.

Xai · Newbie

Black Panther..

I read the interesting article u linked to...

My feeling is that there will always be a fashionable term. As the article said Eskimo was perfectly fine when talking of Inuits and other such tribes as a whole.. like Bantu describes South Africans, Sothos, Malawians and Tswanas. But there will be a time when we decide that the term Bantu is no longer appropriate. In England the term Paki was used by Pakistanis to differentiate themselves from the Indians. Now its a racial slur. Ther are even Pakistani's now who want to reclaim the word. Return it to its former glory as symbol of pride for the Pakistani British. Bushmen became San and now San has become Khoi. Yet the Khoi are not the only "bushman" tribe in southern africa. So what term do we use to describe those minority tribes. because at some point they're going to emerge and say they dont want to be lumped in with the Khoi. up until recently it was okay to say someone was negro or of the negroid population. now people take offense. But Negro = Black in many languages. it was the preferred term in the civil rights movement by activists. Now you ask someone if they're negro its like you're asking them if they're a ****.

Oh well I gues it goes to show that as times change so does our use of language. The lesson is that we all have to lean to accept the fluidity of language and run with the times. And once a term has been used negatively, it can never be changed.

*bisous*

kesso · Senior Member

A very profound statement Xai, I'm completely lost for anything else to add. Political correctness has become fashionable and in this post-PC, racially mixed world everyone is claiming a stake at redefining themselves and shedding the old terms that pigeon-holed them into stereotypes by their oppressors of "superiors".

Political correctness is not a movement brought by the underclass but by the liberal white classes bent on righting past wrongs. That's why some of the new ways of descibing people; wether disabled or the "other" sometimes seems at odds with the people been descibed themselves. As with the term "Paki".

As you said about the fluidity of language, this time the influence is of PC. All the world becomes more globalised and mixed, old definitions lose their effects and new one take over to enforce a certain claiming of identity and self knowledge.

OK now I'm going on and on... I'll get back to work..

Lady B · Senior Member

Curious to Malawians, If someone called u a bushman, would you be offended

whatever you do dont ever cal a tswana bushman

they get really pissed off

this dude almost bit myhead off when i did

'kiss'

game · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Lady B
"Curious to Malawians, If someone called u a bushman, would you be offended
whatever you do dont ever cal a tswana bushman
they get really pissed off
this dude almost bit myhead off when i did
'kiss'"

lady b

why did you go to extreme lengths of calling your fellow african BUSH MAN,
you are not serious gal.i didnt want to comment because you definately will think am being nasty.but am not.

Black Panther · Senior Member

quote:
Originally posted by: Xai
The lesson is that we all have to lean to accept the fluidity of language and run with the times. And once a term has been used negatively, it can never be changed. *bisous*"

excellent point. I agree. Keeping up with the times though essentially means being PC. I think the problm may also arise in that there are 2 factions in the groups - one that's okay with a term and the other thats not. another problem would be that some people become so used to hearing themselves called that, that they dont know its an insult or was originally intended to be... but thats how the world is. No one wants to get wrapped up in PCness. But pple should be aware at least so that they are not going to places like South African and making speeches to young progressive B*shmen - and calling them that.

Okay, so whe people of Khooi origin leave the bush and go to school and college and stuff, do we stop calling them bushmen? technically they are not in the bush - so why should we call them bushmen ? Its like the term caveman we dont call the Nords or Danes or whoever Cavemen anymore - why do names like this stick to one group and not the other?

Lady B · Senior Member

Game iwe , i meant it in a joking way when i did , i didnt see anthying wrong , since he could call me all these names , like kwelekwere when around

didnt mean it as an offence to him though , but man , dude got really mad

'kiss'

Black Panther · Senior Member

Lady b,

kwerekwere means foreingers, but i dont think it is an insulting temr for them.... it like having a conversation with a frined and they are calling u outsider' or a Malawian call u mlendo, and then u retort by calling them n*gger - not equl weight...LOL

Lady B · Senior Member

Pather

no offence but i know what kwere kwere means but thanks for telling

when you live with them you know , and believe me its equal

'kiss'