pimp my tomb

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

pimp my tomb

kesso · Senior Member

I think it's a great idea.

Like him or loathe him, Kamuzu is still the single greatest influence in MW society and politics. It's probably one of the best ideas to come out of MW for sometime and should be welcomed. I wish it had a public swimming pool/amusement park 'though and it should be free too. Question is where. Blantyre or LL?

Black Panther · Senior Member

Build the tomb. Build culture. Biuld Malawi.

In 10 years, there willl be little Malawians groiwng up that will love their country theri people, and are more likely to want to help the starving.

people like George Washington and Licoln have tombs monuements, and blood on their hands. bush has blood on his hands, he will have an airport or two named after him.

A tomb for the father of Independence is all good. There are still Malawians out there that are enslaved in their minds by the British ... we need to celebrate the birth of Malawi as a nation - owned by Malawians, and bult by Malawians ( If people died during Bandas reign at least they dies at the hands of a Malawian, and not a 16 yr old British trooper that wants his country to have OUR tea). Pimp the tomb -

Black Panther · Senior Member

Kesso,

I dont think we need a swimming pool there - we all know that black people - even with a big lake like Lake M , have problems with swimming, it will turn in to a graveyard then !

kesso · Senior Member

Second thoughts, you have a point there. Who'll look after it anyway? They couldn't manage the zoo in BT.

game · Guru

keeso

the mousoleum is in lilongwe at the chinese gardens opposite the old mutual house and its right on the side of the road,what i dont understand is that muluzi's ten years as malawi leader this idea of pinpin kamuzu's grave never crossed his mind,ladies and gentlemen that man elevated our lives although some people died during his era,no politictian can run a country without short comings,even my greatest politictians of all times in the likes of jfk and clinton they did come short of peoples expectations thats how every human being functions.

we celebrate other countries heroes when we do have a son of malawi who did not only rescue malawians from the jaws of colonialists but the whole of rhodesia,no other african leader has ever done what kamuzu did from kamuzu academy to chanco,that man was the academic genesis to the point that now we do have intellectuals in our circle.this idea of pinping his mousoleum is a great idea to ever surface in malawi instead of trying to erase his name from the history of malawi by changing names of his political masterpieces like the kamuzu international airport that decision was weak.whoever suggested of pinping his grave appreciates and respects the work that old man did for the people of nyasaland.

kesso · Senior Member

I came across a site on the net

www.greatepicbooks.com

There's a very insightful biography on Kamuzu complete with very nostalgic pictures..

Black Panther · Senior Member

your right game, in spite of all the Zambian jokes about Malawian intelligence Malawi has a huge pool of intellectuals - We have Malawianed the world bank, we have Malawined the UN, we have Malawianed the hospitals. It is by no accidents that Malawi has more internationally qulified Drs in England then they do in Malawi - Excellence is no Accident- the question is- what are those intellectuals doing to give back to Malawi - Banda needed to , should have made sure that we were getting a return on his investment -

-- Edited by Black Panther at 19:56, 2005-05-11

chichi · Senior Member

that is really cool what they are doing Kamuzu is part of a big history in Malawi and for Malawi to do this its great. Keep history alive

peace ya'll

Chiki · Veteran Member

quote:
Originally posted by: game
"keeso the mousoleum is in lilongwe at the chinese gardens opposite the old mutual house and its right on the side of the road,what i dont understand is that muluzi's ten years as malawi leader this idea of pinpin kamuzu's grave never crossed his mind,

Game.I have 2 disagree wit u there. This project of building the mouseleum started whilst Muluzi was still the president. He is the one who suggested it.

Otherwise i think its very nice wot they are doing. But have they actually started building it yet? cos ive been hearing about this 4 a long time but nothing comes out of it.

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

... According to BBC, 65 million dollars from Government budget is going towards this project.I think it's also important to bear in mind Malawi's economic problems. As most of you may know, we rank sixth of the world's poorest countries. Malawi is undergoing an economic crisis. Many argue that the money going towards the Mausolem would have been better used towards alleviating hunger. Personally, I think the timing was off.

game · Guru

skillz

if its 65million then its better it goes to hospitals and the poverty alleviation programmes instead of wasting it on bags of cement and bricks.we can build the mousoleum when malawian people are miles over the poverty line.or they can use kamuzu's millions instead of letting the mama's and the tembo's munch it.

PeterGriffin · Member

quote:
Originally posted by: kesso
"I think it's a great idea. Like him or loathe him, Kamuzu is still the single greatest influence in MW society and politics. It's probably one of the best ideas to come out of MW for sometime and should be welcomed. I wish it had a public swimming pool/amusement park 'though and it should be free too. Question is where. Blantyre or LL?"

Come on kesso "Amusement park". If we have 65 million to spend, I think lets spend it on things that have the highest priority and can uplift the lives of poor Malawians that are suffering right now. We need to spend that money on things that will benefit us and our country for now, things like education, agriculture, industrialization, health sector and poverty. I think Bingu just wants to use this as way to win the peoples favor and to establish a political backbone. It is a great idea; they can make the mausoleum with the library, research database about Malawi [with a user interface], and the viewing area. I don't think the place needs a dancing arena, what for?

I am basically saying that it is a good idea, but time for it will come, its not like his corpse is going away or it has started decaying. The coffin he is buried in is made out of gold and it will only start deteriorating like a 100 years from now. So we still have lots of time to address the urgent problems at hand and after we are in better economic shoes, we can build the mausoleum that the great man deserves.

Black Panther · Senior Member

Rome wastn built in a day. Every country has a budget. If money was allocated for the thing then build it. Why not there will always be starving Malawians. There will always be something we can use our monye better towards. The thing is, at least with this we will know where the mony went. With funds for hospitals and stuff, it ends up in the politicians hands. This is something that is lasting - it will be there forever and will remind people what Band did or did not do for our country. imagine a young Malawian boy or girl being able to go there and thinking - this is a Malawian hero - I can be one too. Also it pulls in money , tourist attraction - thus it can generate income - you cant have development in a country without developing the history, culture and people !

Abiti Nyono · Member

Tourist attraction, yeah right, are you serious? People are actually dying from eating wild yams back home, i think Nibe has a great vision for our beloved country!

Ngwazi · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: Black Panther
"Rome wastn built in a day. Every country has a budget. If money was allocated for the thing then build it. Why not there will always be starving Malawians. There will always be something we can use our monye better towards. The thing is, at least with this we will know where the mony went. With funds for hospitals and stuff, it ends up in the politicians hands. This is something that is lasting - it will be there forever

Black Panther,

The idea of the mausoleum is good because it will help the future generations in discovering the political history of the country,it will help us(this generation)to be good story tellers to our "grandchildren and great-grandchildren"(God willing),Imagine telling the kids about youth week,crop inspection tours(ku msewu and ku mtunthama),the heavy handedness of the MYP and above all how frightening it were just to mention the name Kamuzu even within the security of the four walls of your own home(sometimes your own parents would tell you to shut up as they too feared arrests),they will indeed be great stories and spice them up by taking the kids to see the final resting place of the man who was once considered immortal.But I do sincerely hope that the figure being mentioned(65 million)is not in dollars because if it is in that currency then this is a white elephant,its a horrendous waste of money,the money would have been used to buy surgical gloves ,medicines and even food as the harvest has been poor this year.

The questions we all should be asking are,is it necessary?is it a priority?couldn't the money be used for something else?how much more money would be spent in"caring"for this thing in the long term?Dont get me wrong,Kamuzu deserves a decent resting place but not for 65 million dollars,no way.I hope its a mistake on the sender of the posting and the figure is in malawi Kwacha otherwise the sanity of the "economic engineer"will be questioned.

You are talking about "at least with we will know where our money went",are you sure?You will be able to see the building and given figures on how much it costed but would the figures be true?wont someone fraudulently "cook" the books and figures?remember you are talking about a malawian politician and you know how good they are in these type of things,they lack transparency and accountability.

skillzmanifest · Senior Member

It's late, but I'll get back to your enquires in good time. Otherwise, for those of you who haven't yet read the article, hopefully this link will be of some help.
New tomb for Malawi's Banda

-- Edited by skillzmanifest at 07:20, 2005-05-12

I hope I was mistaken about the figures.

-- Edited by skillzmanifest at 07:26, 2005-05-12

game · Guru

Ngwazi

still even if the amount is in kwachas there are alot of issues to be adressed in malawi from poverty to hiv aids,think of how you budget in your own home,can you buy yourself a shoe when your fridge is empty?with the little amount of money you get you make sure you settle for the priorities,building the mousoleum now with that kind of money when poor people are still dying of hunger and illneses is an economical misdemeanour,and instead of generating money it will suck empty all government finances as its so hard to manage a thing like that.look how useless the new state house is, they dont even know what to do with it right now but alot of government money was pumped in to build that.

why cant they just build a statue of kamuzu somewhere in city centre instead of a mousoleum,that wont cost much and they can use the other money to buy medicine and improve our health sector.or build more hospitals in villages or schools the list is endless.

jones_1 · Veteran Member

i think it wouldve been much better if the money was allocated to the hospitals or some other places useful as game and the others have said.

currently,there is a shortage of gloves,drugs e.t.c in some of the hospitals/health centres and you can imagine how unbearable it is for both the patients and the nurses/doctors

went to several health centres in blantyre and they literally had no gloves and you can imagine expectant mothers were delivering by themselves!!

it is a pitiful sight but there was nothing you could do about it cos otherwise youd be putting the mothers/babies or yourself at risk!

i wish these leaders in authority would have a glimpse of wot happens in these hospitals and then they would realise wot should be their main priorities when allocating money for developing thi country!

kesso · Senior Member

I'll have to agree with blackpanther.

One thing is certain. Although 65million will go a long way if used PROPERLY as a long term investement in health care or education, it doesn't spoil the case for the memorial. I thought that's what we had a parliament for, to debate about if it should be done or not. A lot of the money Malawi gets from the EU get mismanaged too and better management of donations, cancelling or reducing Malawis debt repayments and better access to foreign government subsidised markets would solve most Malawis problems.

I think we should go ahead. We can't ignore our history (which I think the memorial would be representing) because it cost 65milllion. There's a budget and they've concluded that we can spare it. Either that or it would go into paying back an IMF loan.

game · Guru

keeso

the history of malawi is not long gone,do you think that kamuzu academy is not the epitaph of kamuzu's memory?as of now we can use the academy as a trademark of his achievements and forget the mousoleum,the amount of money being mentioned can be used to regulate our economy and make it strong again,whether its by improving the living standards of people especially in villages or increasing income to the proletariat so that their effectiveness will help in higher produce of our economical backbone which is agriculture.

if we dont misuse funds and put it to good use we capture the interest of donors they pump in more money knowing for sure that it wont be thrown in the drain.in so doing donor countries and institutions like the i.m.f and world bank wont have second thoughts on how we use the funds,but if we take 65 million and use it to build a grave of a former leader it wont make any sense to people trying to help us with finances.am not a financial expert but this is my idea on how we can put this money to good use.

kesso · Senior Member

For one. We need to rely less and less on the IMF and world bank as they are only there to forward the interests of the western countries especially the US. I mean how can some someone in an office in Washington who has never been to Malawi, can't even spot it on the map, tell us that the only way to improve our economy is to borrow money from them and reduce spending on health care etc in order to pay it back. Of course not to mention opening our local industries to their multi-nationals.

Here lies the paradox. If we ignore them, who will help us when we need funds for AIDS or hunger relief? Who's business is how we spend OUR money. The bank doesn't tell you what to eat for breakfast just because you took out a loan that you're finding it hard to pay.

Africa desperately needs to do what Asia is doing at the moment. South America too. Collectively coming together to protect their markets. The EU has such stringent protection rackets and their rich already. It should start with our politicians. Politicians who have the guts to come together with a consensus. Unite, convince our people too that this is the ideological step to take. Stand up to the west and refuse to pay up what we can't afford until they re-negotiate the terms.

If the west threatens with sanction, we say well we'll trade with ourselves even if we don't have enough money. Lets see who needs who. I think China is the next best hope for the developing world, especially Africa...

To be cont...

Ngwazi · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: kesso
"For one. We need to rely less and less on the IMF and world bank as they are only there to forward the interests of the western countries especially the US. I mean how can some someone in an office in Washington who has never been to Malawi, ...................... Africa desperately needs to do what Asia is doing at the moment. South America too. Collectively coming together to protect their markets. .................... Unite, convince our people too that this is the ideological step to take. Stand up to the west and refuse to pay up what we can't afford until they re-negotiate the terms. If the west threatens with sanction, we say well we'll trade with ourselves even if we don't have enough money. Lets see who needs who.the next best hope for the developing world, especially Africa... To be cont..."

Kesso,

and how do you suggest we do that?where are we going to get the money for development and humanitarian needs?are you aware that our country contributes only 20%of the budget and the 80% is donor aid?Your ideas are good on paper but practically they dont measure up.As far as I am concerned the country whether we like it will depend on donor aid for a long time and unlike Brazil when it stood up when "Lula" asked for renegotiation of the countrys debt,we dont have the same clout,we have nothing to offer to the world materially as well as ideally.Our main cash crop,tobacco,is alrady facing pressure from the anti-smoking lobby and the last thing we would want is to antagonise the west.Have you ever wondered why all the countries in Africa that were under the Europeans were called "colonies"but Malawi(nyasaland)was called a"protectorate"?,we had nothing apart from labour to offer,all our neighbours had minerals worth investing in but not us.

Its true that the bank does not tell you what to eat for breakfast but the application of that scenario to national borowing is different.You have to understand that loans given by these rich nations are conditional not because of anything but the greed and corruption of our leaders in Africa.We are all aware how many african leaders have corruptly enriched themselves with donor money,we have had the Mobutus,the Sani Abachas and even in asia,the Marcos family.In your own house,the number of people matters not,all of them can eat the same breakfast as you but when it comes to a country,the money ends up in the hands of a few greedy and corrupt politicians,they dont have transaparency and though the money was used by the few,it is the ordinary man on the street who ends up servicing that loan through his tax.

Much as I would like to agree with you on African countries doing what the Asians or South americans are doing,we have the word"development"as the barrier.The level of development, technological,infrastucture and industrial among these Asian tigersand african countries is not the same.Why?it all goes back to the corruption of our african leaders.In 1957,Ghana and Malaysia,both former British colonies became independent.Both had inherited the British system of governance and economic prudence,Ghanas GNP was US$170 while Malaysias was US$200,that was then.Today Ghanas GNP is US$285 whilst that of Malaysia is US$3885(almost 14 times larger),Ghana is considered among the poorest nations on earth(despite its gold reserves)while Malaysia is the fastest developing country joining the rank of middle-income group of nations(source:westafricanreview.com)why the difference,political leadership.Greed on the part of our african politicians.Whilst politicians in Asia or South america take 10%,african ones take the whole 100%.

Trading among ourselves sounds good on paper as well but in the long term countries like Malawi will still be at a disadvantage.Countries that rely too much on imports and not exporting much themselves suffers from trade imbalance and unfortunately we are in that situation.

-- Edited by Ngwazi at 14:56, 2005-05-12

Ngwazi · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: game
"Ngwazi still even if the amount is in kwachas there are alot of issues to be adressed in malawi from poverty to hiv aids,think of how you budget in your own home,can you buy yourself a shoe when your fridge is empty?

game,

wise words,I cant agree with you more.Its true that the country has other priorities but these politicians have an "appeasement"policy.I do agree that Kamuzu needs a decent burial place but your idea of a statute in his honour is very cost effective.Bakili started this issue when he was cosying up with John Tembo,when they differed the idea was the last on Bakilis mind,now Bingu thinks he can win the hearts of the people in the central region more especially the MCP Mps and he has gone ahead with the actual construction.Anyway its already under construction but I believe your idea of a statute is very good

PeterGriffin · Member

quote:
Originally posted by: kesso
"For one. We need to rely less and less on the IMF and world bank as they are only there to forward the interests of the western countries especially the US. I mean how can some someone in an office in Washington who has never been to Malawi, can't even spot it on the map, tell us that the only way to improve our economy is to borrow money from them and reduce spending on health care etc in order to pay it back. Of course not to mention opening our local industries to their multi-nationals. Here lies the paradox. If we ignore them, who will help us when we need funds for AIDS or hunger relief? Who's business is how we spend OUR money. The bank doesn't tell you what to eat for breakfast just because you took out a loan that you're finding it hard to pay. Africa desperately needs to do what Asia is doing at the moment. South America too. Collectively coming together to protect their markets. The EU has such stringent protection rackets and their rich already. It should start with our politicians. Politicians who have the guts to come together with a consensus. Unite, convince our people too that this is the ideological step to take. Stand up to the west and refuse to pay up what we can't afford until they re-negotiate the terms. If the west threatens with sanction, we say well we'll trade with ourselves even if we don't have enough money. Lets see who needs who. I think China is the next best hope for the developing world, especially Africa... To be cont..."

I agree with some of your points, but lets be realistic here. Malawi we are far from standing alone and not needing the international help. I mean where will we be if it weren't for IMF, world bank and EU. Its true that gradually the East is becoming more powerful and leaders in the marketshare, because of rengineering of processes, industrialization and practising value adding paradigms[eg continuous improvement principles] and America is slowly failing to cope.

That "Who needs who" idealogy wouldn't work for us, maybe if we were where South Africa is..jus' maybe. What we need to do is a whole cultural change, I mean a change in the way the Malawian proletariat thinks. We need a government that will create industries[Employment], support education and we don't need employees, what we need is to employ patriots. People who will go that extra mile for their mother country. We need to shift from currently an importing state to an exporting state. We need Malawian products for Malawi. I know this is aiming too much and sadly enough people are resistant to change.

Black Panther · Senior Member

Ngwazi

you say we dont have clout - african countries- I beg the differ - we do have clout - the majority of raw goods come from Africa - including minerals - precious stones etc.. England tea industry- and my favorite example - cocoa Europe does not grow cocoa but when u think of chocolate you think of Beligium, Swiss etc.. Its a big industry, if all the african countries came together and did something - it would work - but we dont b/c if Ghana says 'no', Nigeria will say 'take ours'... We have clout- we just dont know how to use it.

I think Kesso suggestion is right build a manoseulum that's less expensive. Maybe- but I say build it. We have Always had starving people we will always be begging. There is Always something money can better be used for. Like I sad earlier, DC is home to most of the nations homelss people in the US yet it is home to the most memorials in the world - that is why people love DC. Banda's manosulum would be a tourist attraction in Malawi- when people come to Malawi they will want to see it - it is also up to the tourism bour to promote it- but it will be one of those things- 'oh u went to Mw? did u see Banda's memorial' - Just like the aparthied mueum is doing for South Africa.

But I have to agree it is NOT a priority- immediate emergencies should be taken care of - like famine - but Malawi should have had an "emegency" fund or reserve fund. With Good budgeting- regardless of cost - we would not be arguing about this being built or not.

Someone ( I think Kesso) said Malawians are resistent to change- we have tried thie beggint thing- this spending money on hosptials thing - Malawians are resistenat to change - lets think outside the box- well at lease outside our box - One of the first hitng dictators do when they come to power is to attack cultural things- museums, art work- literature, you name it- propaganda - Dont underestimate the power of culture in builing politics and develpoing young minds.

-- Edited by Black Panther at 16:16, 2005-05-12

-- Edited by Black Panther at 16:19, 2005-05-12

game · Guru

panther

lets be on the real here,in our lives change is inevitable,development cannot be attributed to one group of people thats unheard of,if the mousoleum can be built on a lesser budget where will we get the funds to run it?we definately need to develop areas that generate funds to the economy like agriculture,think of rice farming,people in central africa rate malawi rice as the best, but farmers are failing to reach a higher production rate because of lack of irrigation equipment or if the government cant afford the equipment all they need is the extra revenue to revamp the current irrigation scheme that never materialised.with the deteriorating of foreign interest on our tobbacco markets we need to think of something to keep our economy on track.instead of spending a hell lot of money on some mousoleum.

Black Panther · Senior Member

your right change is inevitable - so is resistance from Malawians. Every time some ones trying to do something good, or something different there is thie stron g old school of thought in Malawi that block it- ususally without any realistic alternatives- If your saying lets be real here I welcome you to take a trip down memory lane, Hitler, Stalin etc.. all those people rely on cuilind Culture, one Gemrnay, onde culture with idols etc.. then , only then did they start building the autobahn to creat labor - if your being real lets look at what has actually occured in history - all these economic theories that pop up, some are worht a shot, some are idealistc, etc.. but lets look at what has worked - yes lets be real - also, Malawians hate to say but it must be said- we are a country full of haters- people who dont want to see something suceeed or like to talk without little action - If someone has thei dream and they want to build it and they are activley doing it - Let them build it. The rest of us can talk about it behind our comfy cushions in our basements. but those guys who are against it are the same guys that will not spend $1 to donate money to hlep a fellow Malawian - instead they will talk about the best way to do it. you dont change the mindset of people with medicince (albeit Prozac), you change it with culture.

kesso · Senior Member

Black Panther

I couldn't agree with you more. The more we Africans say we don't have clout so we'll just keep on accepting hand-outs and wait in vain for some magic economical change to help us out. We'll wat forever.

Corruption is one thing. International trade policies are another. But, Like I said unity and stability are the greatest factors we need to take the first step.

Bob Marley once sang "emancipate yourself from mental slavery..." WE DON'T NEED THE WEST AS MUCH AS THEY NEED US. Why? They have a lot more to lose if we refuse to trade collectively with them. Without our raw materials their industries will collapse, massive unemployment, social problems etc here in the west will ensure. That might create an incentive for us to leave and go back to Africa. That effect will only be a positive thing, won't it?

As for development. There is no way we can compete with the west on that front, but you know what? Why play by their rules anyway. We need to define what WE mean by our development. The most important things to us in Africa are not Mercedez Benzes and 4X4s! We need to look at it long term.

I was reading the history of China post the revolution and I begin seeing it. That some of the policies applied would work well in Africa, where culture is a strong contributing factor in defining us...

game · Guru

kesso and panther

letting people build their dreams at the expency of poor people is ignorance in its pure form, and the alert public cannot tolerate that.think of it this way winstone churchill is the greatest leader English people ever had but they dont have a mousoleum for him instead they built him a statue at westminster.and england is one of great economies in the world,you dont need a mousoleum to keep somebodies memory alive thats my arguement,malawian people had been ripped apart by the beast of dictatorship, all they want now is some way to better there lives not build something to remind them of someone who tortured and robbed them of their human rights just because he once fought for their freedom.

and keeso how can you emancipate yourself from mental slavery when you cant disentangle yourself from the web of misery?think of a bigger picture gentlemen,if you were in the village trying hard to make ends meet but still cant win the uphill battle,how would you feel if you hear that someone is building a mousoleum costing like 65 million?lets join hands and drill holes in the ceiling of ignorance,let us build a corrupt free malawi by defusing bad financial decisions.