Clergy warns on homosexuality

fandumu · Newbie

Clergy warns on homosexuality

lgmm2005 · Newbie

Lesbians and gays have a rightful place in the church just like everyone else. This is in the face of hostility from the religious community in Malawi including Islamic religion and threat of excommunication and persecution. My core message is that no community, no ethnicity, no culture and no religion ought to be immune from respecting the universality of human rights. This, of course, is a controversial message in an age of cultural relativism. Mine is a positive message of pluralism. I truly believe that we can be pluralists without becoming relativists. Thats especially important for the lesbian and gay movement to understand, given the bigotry we so often face from ethnic and religious groups. No matter how and what yuo might say its a revolution time and thanks to God Malawi here come for the rights and freedom of the Gay and Lesbian society.

sepusepu · Senior Member

you are boring, you are putting me to sleep.

ZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!ZZZZZZZZZZ

Chiki · Veteran Member

Sungani · Veteran Member

quote:
Originally posted by: lgmm2005
"Lesbians and gays have a rightful place in the church just like everyone else. This is in the face of hostility from the religious community in Malawi including Islamic religion and threat of excommunication and persecution. My core message is that no community, no ethnicity, no culture and no religion ought to be immune from respecting the universality of human rights. This, of course, is a controversial message in an age of cultural relativism. Mine is a positive message of pluralism. I truly believe that we can be pluralists without becoming relativists. Thats especially important for the lesbian and gay movement to understand, given the bigotry we so often face from ethnic and religious groups. No matter how and what yuo might say its a revolution time and thanks to God Malawi here come for the rights and freedom of the Gay and Lesbian society. "

Moderator, I beg you, please ban this sicko from this forum.

Ngwazi · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: lgmm2005
"Lesbians and gays have a rightful place in the church just like everyone else. This is in the face of hostility from the religious community in Malawi including Islamic religion and threat of excommunication and persecution. My core message is that no community, no ethnicity, no culture and no religion ought to be immune from respecting the universality of human rights. This, of course, is a controversial message in an age of cultural relativism. Mine is a positive message of pluralism. I truly believe that we can be pluralists without becoming relativists. Thats especially important for the lesbian and gay movement to understand, given the bigotry we so often face from ethnic and religious groups. No matter how and what yuo might say its a revolution time and thanks to God Malawi here come for the rights and freedom of the Gay and Lesbian society. "

lgmm2005,

you say:

,Lesbians and gays have a rightful place in the church just like everyone else. This is in the face of hostility from the religious community in Malawi including Islamic religion and threat of excommunication and persecution.

I say:

they have to force themselves to have that place,homosexuality is not a Godly thing and even the Pope was against it(not forgetting comrade Mugabe of course!)

you say: No matter how and what yuo might say its a revolution time and thanks to God Malawi here come for the rights and freedom of the Gay and Lesbian society

I say:

nyasi zanuzo kapangileni kwina,malawi wanga toto!This type of behaviour has no place in Malawi.Whether you think it is a revolution(revolution? my a..)or whatever in that beautiful land this thing will never be accepted,muzichitabe mobisa otherwise even ma vendor will stone you to death,dont corrupt our young people with this stupid thinking and stop cheating yourself,a malawi sitilola khalidwe lonyasali.The Mps no matter how much lobbying you gay rights activists will make will never vote for or pass such a stupid legislation,so dont waste your time,take your boyfriend and go for a walk in the "jurassic park"

kesso · Senior Member

I'm suprised by the amount of hostility to the idea of homosexuality even by folks who live in the US and are supposed to be "modernised" (if there's anything like that). If I was gay, I'll sure hate to be ostracized by my brothers because of it. I know quite a few homosexual malawians in Malawi and abroad and you know what? They are just like you and me; even more so. So please, tone down the homophobia, it just makes you sound "chimidzi"...

money low · Veteran Member

quote:
Originally posted by: kesso
"I'm suprised by the amount of hostility to the idea of homosexuality even by folks who live in the US and are supposed to be "modernised" (if there's anything like that). If I was gay, I'll sure hate to be ostracized by my brothers because of it. I know quite a few homosexual malawians in Malawi and abroad and you know what? They are just like you and me; even more so. So please, tone down the homophobia, it just makes you sound "chimidzi"..."

one doesnt have to be a rocket scientist to know that youre gay .

-- Edited by money low at 00:19, 2005-04-22

sepusepu · Senior Member

quote:
Originally posted by: money low
"one doesnt have to be a rocket scientist to know that you gay"

Indeed Money low,

this kessie (she/he) is a sissy. Just because we in the west see this alot doesnot mean that we have to accept it.We always stick to our opinions that gay stuff does not belong to the motherland. If you think that Ndife a chimidzi then you have a wrong idea of what chimidzi is.

I think your facts have no basis. If you didnt post this i would have assumed that you are straight but unfortunately you have exposed yourself.No need for me to say any more.

sepu sepu

Ngwazi · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: kesso
"I'm suprised by the amount of hostility to the idea of homosexuality even by folks who live in the US and are supposed to be "modernised" (if there's anything like that). If I was gay, I'll sure hate to be ostracized by my brothers because of it. I know quite a few homosexual malawians in Malawi and abroad and you know what? They are just like you and me; even more so. So please, tone down the homophobia, it just makes you sound "chimidzi"..."

kesso,

it seems you dont like the truth,its not chimidzi when someone says s/he cant accept this type of behaviour.I for one would not want to have a gay friend,the problem with having such a friend is that you would never tell if he fancies you(God forbid)or is just being friendly as there is a very thin line between them( friendly and fancying).Ndiye ngati chili chimidzi then thats fine by me

kesso · Senior Member

Nwazi

I admire the name (wish I'd thought of it first) but anyway... What the hell are you talking about? How do you know wether your own heterosexual friends don't fancy you too? Are you that insecure that you are afraid of homosexuality. How does it threaten you or harm you in any way if you are straight. If you don't like it, you don't like it. It's not a moral issue if it's between two censenting adults, neither should it be a criminal one. I have witnessed grown men in Malawi having sex with underage girls and their friends thinking it cool. From my perspective, thats even worse exploitation and thats what should be targeted as immoral.

Ngwazi · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: kesso
"Nwazi I admire the name (wish I'd thought of it first) but anyway... What the hell are you talking about? How do you know wether your own heterosexual friends don't fancy you too? Are you that insecure that you are afraid of homosexuality. How does it threaten you or harm you in any way if you are straight. If you don't like it, you don't like it. It's not a moral issue if it's between two censenting adults, neither should it be a criminal one. I have witnessed grown men in Malawi having sex with underage girls and their friends thinking it cool. From my perspective, thats even worse exploitation and thats what should be targeted as immoral. "

Kesso,

thanks for the complement about the name,it really is a great name.Well,if my heterosexual friends fancy me then its something I have to be happy with since I would assume that they are of the oppositive sex,you pretty well know that the only things a malawian man(a normal malawian man that is)would fancy about another man would be his "crib "or "ride" and again the type and looks of the women he gets not thinking of having sex with him,if my friends fancies me in that way then I am sorry,our friendship will have to cool down.I am not afraid of homosexuality,I despise it.

By the way,when you say homosexuality is not a criminal issue,are you talking about in the western world or in Malawi?if you are talking about Malawi,why is that people or organisations like lgmm2005 are fighting for the "legalisation"(read this word well)of homosexuality?remember you can only fight to have something made legal(i.e Chamba,cocaine)if all along the thing was illegal,all along it was/is a criminal offence to "act"that way or be found in possession of such a thing.So its not only immoral but criminal behaviour to engage in homosexuality (in Malawi that is)

kesso · Senior Member

I agree with you. In principle only...

Yes homosexuality in Malawi is illegal. My argument is that it is irrational for the state to legislate over the sexual behaviour of consenting adults as most of it goes on behind closed doors, without any damage done to its participants.

What I might add is that probably the way lgmm2005 is going about it is what might tick the Malawian society off. It's new, "western" (supposedly) and from a religious perspective, immoral. What about for an atheist like myself who doesn't accept the moral authourity of the church or mosque or synagogue? Yes Christians should, if they wish, reject it and I suppose you are one too.

On the other hand one should, from an intellectual perprective be free to challenge its authority and monopoly on morality.

When you say that you despise homosexuality, is it on a moral ground. Because the clergy say its immoral? On any other gound its as irrational as racism is since it doesn't or shouldn't bother you since you are not one and nobody's forcing you to be one...

Ngwazi · Guru

quote:
Originally posted by: kesso
My argument is that it is irrational for the state to legislate over the sexual behaviour of consenting adults as most of it goes on behind closed doors, without any damage done to its participants ............................from a religious perspective, immoral. What about for an atheist like myself who doesn't accept the moral authourity of the church or mosque or synagogue? Yes Christians should, if they wish, reject it and I suppose you are one too. On the other hand one should, from an intellectual perprective be free to challenge its authority and monopoly on morality. When you say that you despise homosexuality, is it on a moral ground.

Kesso,

for once I have to admit that my thinking on homosexuality might change and this is because of you.I might not entirely agree with this behaviour but as you put it,it is between two consenting adults and has nothing to do with a third party like myself,I agree on that one.I however would not wish to challenge the church on its position about homosexuality as this would be acting against my conscience and much as my views might change,the church will remain my guiding light.

I would assume that you are gay and you want to fight for the rights of other gay people,you want other people to accept you for who and what you are,the acts take place behind closed doors and between two consenting adults and I have to accept that this is real ,it is happening and it will always be happening,we all cannot be the same,we all cannot be lovers of meat,we all have different tastes and likings and for that I have to accept you(or other gay people)and what you do though I dont condone it,I have to look at you as a human being first and a gay person second and only then can we live harmoniously together.

-- Edited by Ngwazi at 15:36, 2005-04-23

game · Guru

Ngwazi

dont let kesso hypnotise you,homosexuality is an act between two consenting adult psychopaths,i know he is making alot of sense but the moment you accept this uncouth conduct you invite a mental picture that force you to deriberate whether its right or not,it sparks all the insecurities in your life to the point that every time you touch somebodies hand you think about it.it creates an undercurrent everytime you are with your male friends,so please my friend dont dare.

kesso · Senior Member

You almost seem to be showing all the symptoms of closet homosexuality. But I would like to stress, to all those that might think otherwise. I am not gay, neither do I or have I had any tendensies to be. I used to be extremely homophobic, boy I once had a girlfriend that left me for another chick (don't laugh).

I am agnostic or rather I am suspicious of religious types that use the bible to justify their prejudices. I've studied biblical history and I understand the role of the church. The harm it has done in the past with respect to Africa and colonialism. The church does have a pretty checkered past.

I also believe in freedom of expression. I know the damage stiffling it can cause to the individual particularly one who wants to express it sexually. The sexual drive is one of the strongest we have. If you have it towards the same sex and are made to feel guilty about it by societal norms, the effects can be devastating.

So fellas relax. Hompsexuality is not some contagious disease...